Not sure how much my opinion/thoughts mean here, but I do bear the unfortunate title of WW. The first thing I would say is to listen to everyone else...even if you don't like what they say at first. Following up on that- regarding 'childhood past' stuff. My childhood was almost perfect...two parents who loved me, I was never abused, I was taught about God and how we are supposed to live. Guess what? I still had an affair. TWICE.

I will say, after the first time, I tried to blame it a whole bunch of stuff. Some on things my husband did or didn't do, and some on things in my past and childhood. The reason I/we (WW's) do that is to make us feel better...make us feel less responsible, less guilty. If I, with a perfect childhood can have an affair and marital bliss with a not so perfect childhood can NOT have an affair, it would see that Dr. Harley is right and childhood really doesn't have anything to do with it.

Regarding the guilt and the depression...The only thing that makes me feel slightly better, is knowing that I'm doing the right thing now, and that I'm doing everything in my power to make amends to my BH.

Oh...edited to add: Make an appt with Steve Harley. I've done both the regular MC thing and now we have been talking with him. Expensive, but worth it. If I'm remembering correctly, I don't think he's asked me once what my childhood was like.

Skidoo,

I agree that severe depression has to be treated.

But I somewhat have a feeling that this depression is not really a depression but her deep realisation that during your married life together she has been unfaithful almost all the time. And you have fallen into the same trap, you have bought this idea, because understandably it is awfully painful to realise that your life has been a lie. We, people, seldom see the truth or recognise it.

She needs a plan how to become a different person and offer you and herself a happy romantic marriage. Plan does not lie in detailed discussion of her childhood. Plan does not lie into helping her see her childhood issues. Plan lies in changing her poor choices into excellent choices as a married woman. Plan lies in just compensation, extraordinacy care and extraordinary precautions.

Since you are on MB site, please take time to familiarise yourself with what the plan is here and take the advice to call the radio show. If you did it by the book it would take most of your wake hours anyway - and that is what really needed - so you wouldn't have time to waste for childhood.

If she really really focussed on you and your marriage, keeping herself really busy around you, her depressive thoughts will vanish because then she has started to DO something. You have no idea how many people are just working on the plan, trying the plan, thinking on the plan, discussing it in detail, few actually DO it. But feelings follow actions. She needs to refocus her attention to you.

Excellent post Mrs. Recon,

This exact thing happened to myself. Her chronic depression stemmed from her being unfaithful my entire marriage. I got drug down by her messed up childhood and enabled her by doing so. It is so amazing how waywards become experts at diverting the responsibility for their actions to someone or something else.

Skidooman: Very few couples make it through an affair--reason being---too few are willing to do the extraordinary precautions that are necessary to ensure it to never happen again and to give just compensation for what has happened. Are you really OK with your w working 5 minutes away from where om lives?? I sure the hell wouldn't be....but look I am not recovered but divorced because my SWIFF wants to blame everybody and everything rather than owning her actions...

Thanks for the info. This is precisly what has been bothing my wife as far as she tells me and I believe her. The 1st month was lie after lie after lie, she finally broken and the whole truth came of after she got out of the hospital.

I am very confident that the A in 06-07 ended when she says it did. And I am also confident the new A started and I know it ended on the 1st D-day. But daily my wife says she feels so overwhelmed that I know about the 1st affair she is so ashamed and is so embarassed by all of he actions. But we both have realized how the 1st A and the years after without it being exposed, has caused us to drift farther apart. And ultimatly alowing her to fall for the POSOM again.

She has never blamed her actions on me, her childhood, or anything else except for how she allowed herself to be attracted to another man. The childhood talk and unbringing has been brought up by others including myself. Realizing the effect those events have had on shaping her personality. In order to help our marriage she needs to change her personality, and to do that she needs to understand why she feels and acts they way she does in situations. All of this is being addressed daily and weekly at our MC sessions.

The feeling that she has been emotional unfaithful for over 1/2 of our marriage is a definate realization. But I can also assure you she if suffering from severe depression and anxiety almost daily. It his her blaming herself for that has occured.

I agree more extrodinary procations need to be enable to assure anther A does not happen. And I am not comfortable with the possiblity of a chance encounter in the city some place some time. I dont worry nearly as much about her work place due to the work place its self. The fact that it is 5 min from his home is less of a concern than he knows her normal working hours. This will be addressed when it is possible. I dont not worry that the A could start again in the near future. It is the long term future that worrys me. And as I have explained in earlier posts, both of us are seriously considering moving when things settle. We are at a time in our lives when it would be less of a distraction on the children. But a move will have to a wait at least 6 months. My wife has actually the one that with in a few weeks of D-day had brough up the idea of moving. But this was before for the MLOA.

And thanks everyone for the advice about the childhoood. I will be careful not to allow myself to believe that the childhood caused the A's. That even though she was a victim as a child, she is not a victim now. But the childhood has contributed to how she is as a woman today, with weak boundries.

That is good that you won't let yourself believe that her childhood help cause the A, but more importantly SHE needs to know and understand that her boundary issue with me is what caused it. This is the behavior that needs modified!!!

It was her choices that caused the A--not anything that happened during her childhood---all she is doing is displacing the blame if that is the case. She needs to own her actions and modify them..

Skidooman, this is what we are trying to tell you: in order to CHANGE her behavior she does not need to know WHY. Exploring the WHYs is a needless distraction from making much needed changes. This path is a distraction that only prevents her from changing current behavior and only serves to keep her depressed.

One DOES NOT have to know why we behave a certain way in order to change. All of the most effective programs, such as AA, etc, focus only on changing current behavior. In AA, they don't allow you to flap your lips about your past. They only allow you to focus on changing your behavior.

How do the two of you spend your 15 hours+ a week together?

I have no idea what this means. It is clear that OM has contacted her through her workplace. It has already happened. You appear to be blowing this off in order to keep your WW in her workplace, a place where OM knew he could contact her. This is to the detriment of your marriage. Do NOT blow this off! You strike me as a BH who wants everything to 'get back to normal' with minimal disruption. Do you not understand the danger your marriage is in by her continued employment down the street from her OM? Do you not appreciate that her depression may have an origin in remaining in her wayward state?

Skiddo,

As a recent WW, please don't brush your wife's affair under the carpet, don't make excuses, don't let her throw a pity party for herself, and don't ignore the advice you are getting here. If either of you do not truly see her affair for what it is and the conditions that caused it, it will happen again.

I had my first affair a year into my marriage. My H and I tried to make it go away by making excuses, pretending it didn't happen, moving on with our lives etc....

13 years later I was right back in the same place...having another affair. Why? Because I never took complete control of my actions and set up EPs. I never dealt with the reasons why I had an affair but instead swam in the excuses.

Use this site to help you and work on your marriage together. But don't justify her actions and make excusses. Deal with the pain and make changes to assure that your marriage survives and is affair proof in the future.

So, you are basically OK that OM can waltz in her work place and this does not worry you at all? Are you not telling us everything? What things are there to be settle and more important than assured NC for life?


This idea is excellent. When OM is so near to you, then you should prioritise how to get as far away as possible. Are you actually waiting to start the moving process another 6 months? How do you assure NC now?

This worries me.

I will not explain my wifes work place or the work place itself. I want to be cystal clear about that. And if that effects your advice or your think I am making a mistake then so be it.

Lets be clear about another thing my wife is not a wayward anymore. She is a former wayward and always will be. My wife has come to realize what type of men she has weak boundries to. I am NOT saying this was a 1:million chance. I am saying she is vulnerable to these men. She will always be vulnerable to them, but realizes it now. I have been assured again that due to how my wife sees the OM now the chance of another A with him is very minimal. This assurance is just by just my wife. She did not veiw the POSOM this way until the A's were exposed.

Now that doesn't mean that she will allow herself to be able to be easily contacted by him. Her work place is not the type of place he can contact her easily. In the past there was only attempted contact by him. Which she did not respond to, and at that time she did not know what about him made her boundries (as you like to call them) weak. After everything that has come to light she is replused by this man now. But our MC also feels that we dont need to move or, have her change jobs at this time due to just the remote possiblity that he may "attempt" contact. My wife realizes the mess that the A has cauased that is why she has so much depression.

Everyone of us that has been through this now realizes how and A's happen and what the effects are from it. We will also also always fear the possibility of ourselves or spouses will be involved in another A. We have already made changes and precautions to our relationship, our communication with each other, and how we conduct ourselves when we are apart. But only so much can be done to prevent and A. We are not about to run away from a possibilty that and A may happen again. Because and A could happen whereever we move to unless we realize why the A happend and how to prevent another one. So the possibilty of and A happening here or anyplace is the same. My wife does have history with this POSOM. However she has stronger feelings of care and love for past boyfriends now than she has or will ever have for this POSOM. What I have been told by the MC is that this situation is no different that the possiblity of someone having and affair with and exhusband. Rarely do exspouses relocate because of the fear they may be attracted to each other again. I can certainly understand why relocation is necessary in some cases but no one other than those few of you on this forum think that relocation is necessary. It are the details of this A that make that unnessary.

An incident at my wifes work also occured causing the MLOA. This incident involved the depression caused by the A's but did not involve the OM. And this incident has caused more of a depression. The concern is that everytime she works now she will think about what caused he MLOA. The primary concern at this time is help my wife heal from her depression. The other work in recognizing how or love banks had dropped has already been addressed. But as we now realize marriage will always be work.

Have you read the articles on this site? Because you don't seem to understand Dr Harley's philosophy on affairs and what it takes to recover.

I would begin with the love bank concept, move through the other basic concepts and then focus in on the articles dealing with surviving infidelity. Here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

This OM made massive LB$ deposits with your W by meeting her ENs. Even though she tried to end the A or it died a natural death in 2007, the A reignited after several years because he continued to contact her. This is exactly why Dr Harley insists on EPs.

We can't help you with your own or your MC's plan for recovery. We can help you with Dr Harley's plan so I would suggest you read up on it and ask questions relating to that. This is what he says about NC and I believe if you were to call him up he would tell you to get your W out of that job since the OM has a history of contacting her there and if there is still a chance of running into OM in your area (which I think you stated earlier) then you will probably need to prepare to move.

This has bothered me from the start.

First off, the reason OM was able to get through to your W is because she was wayward, allowed it to happen and extraordinary precautions were never implemented. Not because of the state of your M.

Secondly, I find it impossible to believe that after having a nine month affair with him that had become physical and he continued to pursue her, that there is not more to the story of what happened in the last four- five years. Especially given the opportunity that was there since both you and OM's BW weren't watching.

The only way I would believe that there was NC during that time is if she took a poly. This may be a reason that she is struggling emotionally.

But she has been contacted by him at her workplace and is free to try again at any time. And every time he does that, she is triggered again. That is the point. Will power did not stop her in the past and it won't stop her in the future. Eventually, opporunity will collide with temptation and the affair will be back on again. But you already know this because it has already happened.

If you are serious about recovering your marriage, you will take steps to make sure this doesn't happen again. You have to change the ENVIRONMENT and that has not been done.

If reminders of the affair causes her depression, as you have told us, then doesn't common sense dictate that she change her life so she is not perpetually reminded of him? He contacted her before and he can contact her again. The chances of accidental sightings are great as long as she works right by his house.

Like Susie pointed out, I don't think you understand the nature of affairs and as such, are setting yourself up for failure. Please read Dr Harleys quote she posted.

Which proves Susie's point that saying she is "creeped out" did not stop her from resuming her affair. It didn't in the past and it won't in the future. That is because the sting wears off over time and people tend to remember the GOOD TIMES. It is like the alcoholic who swears off drinking the day after a bad drunk. The sting wears off and soon enough and he is back at it again.

That is exactly what happened to your wife in the past. And it will happen again.

This is an excellent point. If she is still lying about pertinent details, she would hang onto her guilt. Would she be willing to take a polygraph?

See?

Despite being "strongly committed" to the M, to the point of being suicidal if you were going to leave her, she still broke NC to warn him...despite the risk of losing you and the pain she knew it would cause and despite the fact that this is a guy who creeps her out, etc.

You do not understand the risk this OM poses to your M. You really do not.

Susie,

Your information is not correct she became suicidal after NC was broken. No matter how much we try you will not understand the details, I obviously have much more info. We will not be moving she will not be changing jobs anytime soon. You do not understand the type on contact that was ATTEMPTED at the work place. I appticiate everyones help. But you do not seem to understand the type of hep I am looking for. We have read all of the articles. And 2 of his books and will be starting. The 3rd soon. Thank for everyones passion, I have received some valuable advice, but also some that does not apply. Take care and I hope I will not be back. If I am I will forever be humbled by your experience.

Skidooman, my friend, I just wanted to point out that you are the least objective person on this thread. We understand the situation much better than you do, and I so wish that were not true.