Well, I know who's got his certificate ready. He's crossed the river and he's getting closer to the Celestial City. (I've been reading "Pilgrim's Progress" a lot lately)

How wonderful that he could get the strength to keep that up.

Thought and prayers for you and your family.

It is always hard on those left behind. It sounds like he lived a good, full life. You will carry on his legacy. You living a good and full life will become his legacy, and one I am certain he will be proud to be a part of.

MBers, i would like to share a few things, some might warrant 2x4's but i've been totally honest with you all.

After 9 months, plan b has been broken!

On Saturday, shortly after noon, my grandfather died (today he wouldve been 93). An hour or so later, the news made it to wxw and she called, as did her whole family. I accepted her call and the subsequent invitation to talk. Knowing i have no family and very few friends, she wanted to be there for me.

We met and she consoled me BUT after a half hour or so, something happened. We began discussing my returning home for the funeral and it lead to us laughing and joking about some of our travel experiences over the years. And the laughs kept coming and coming. We spoke nothing of all that has happeneded over the last year and a half. All we did was sit and enjoy one another's company for about 2 hours.

I know. My plan b is gone. We actually both violated her PO. It felt wierd, though. I don't know what happened but i can't help but believe God is doing something.

A couple things i was proud about were that i was able to show her that i've been doing okay without her (i've gained 17 lbs of muscle and it shows). I was also able to display to her that i'm still here because she noticed i still had on my ring. Neither of us said anything about it, but I'm glad she knows.

Our meeting ended with a nice, long hug and her telling me to call if i need something or someone to talk to. I havent taken her up on that offer and don't really plan on it but it was nice.

I don't know what will happen from this encounter. I know she found out there was never a reason to question her safety around me. She found out that i still love her without me having to say it. She found out that we did have many, many good memories together. But i think most of all, she found out she cares more than she wants others to believe.

Regardless of the outcome of that meeting, whether it leads to anything or not, for a brief moment, WE were our oldselves. It was nice.

As long as you are not thrown into the emotional pit of angst from it and feel strong despite seeing her, it is fine.

You are divorced and can choose whether to stay in plan B for any reason or not.

Many need to stay in Plan B for health, boundary and other reasons.

Mark, no 2x4 from me, yet. As Reading said, you are divorced, and some choose to discontinue Plan B after D. If you decide that you don't want to remain in Plan B, that's okay by me, as long as your new relationship with WxW isn't affecting you negatively.

I would just say be very careful.

Sorry about the loss of your grandfather.

I dunno, mark... I see much more risk than benefit here.

Waywards are very manipulative and would love nothing more than to have their xBS be their "friend" to assuage their guilt. But you risk getting hurt. Again.

Personally, I would not go down this road if I were you unless something radical changes with her (like she shows TRUE remorse for her affairs, etc).

I cant say that i dont have reservations about continued contact with her. I cant even say that i want contact to continue. I needed someone on that day and at that time and she was willing to be that person.

Since that day, no contact has been made and i dont have any intention of pursuing any more contact. We do still have the PO for another 15 months. In all actuality, Saturday was her 4th violation of it and my 1st.

Nonetheless, if we never communicate again, it was clear to her where i still stand since i havent taken off my ring. It was clear to her that no matter how she tries to rewrite our history, we had a lot of good memories.

So since the meeting on Saturday, i called wxw on Monday to simply thank her for being there. The conversation lasted about a minute and it was over. No further contact has been made nor do i plan on making any more contact.

I will say i see the good and bad in just that one incident. It would seem that those 2 hours, while greatly enjoyable, have set me back a bit. Not in a drastic way but enough to question the good that may come from anything further.

I seemed to have, for a brief moment, let her back into my life. Do I continue to allow her back in? Since I didn't get a chance to plan a, could this be my chance now? Am I fooling myself to think that anything that happens now would even matter? If she tries to call again, do i answer now?

These are the questions I ask myself now. Only God really knows what's going on....

You wouldn't be Plan Aing her, you would be dating your ex-wife.

When you break Plan B, and allow contact, you will crave MORE contact. I think that is what is happening here.

Is your ex-wife, the way she is TODAY, someone whom you would date? List the qualities she posses, TODAY.

Scotty, i guess you're right. Maybe i do crave more especially with the way i still feel about her.

And to answer your question about whether i would date her, there are some obvious reasons why i would say yes.

1. While legally we are divorced, in my heart she's still my wife.

2. She is the mother of my only child.

3. Our meeting Saturday proved we have fun together and had a lot of great times together (no matter how hard she wanted to forget them).

Aside from those things and her physical attractiveness, there is not much more i can really say about who she is. I've had no contact with her for 9 months and can only make assumptions mostly.

There is, i guess, one obvious reason i would say no. She hasn't seemed to express any remorse for what she's done. But one of the things that bothers me is, given my inability to plan a during it all, if presenting to her the new me might have a similar affect as plan a.

Yes, i understand plan a is not designed to win the spouse back, but to work on yourself and put your best foot forward so the ws can see what they're losing. I never got that chance which is why i almost consider it a risk worth taking.

I'm well versed now in plan b and know that things becoming too damaging would warrant returning to no contact, but i guess i really just want the chance to try it.

Okay, as a woman, apart from the fact that she is(was) your wife, and is, and will always be your daughter's mother, I was looking for MORE.

What sorts of qualities would you want in a potential date?

I'll present it to you like this. Your friend comes up to you and says, "Hey, there's this girl that I think you should date." Then he would go on to tell you about her adultery, etc. Would you consider dating her?

I would say that you not act on any of your feelings to Plan A your xWW for a while.

She's still wayward, and she's not good for you as she is. One short session of happiness with you, followed by a quick phone call is enough for now. IMVHO.

Maybe saying plan a was a little much as i have really no intention of pursuing her or initiating any further contact. I was really thinking more in small things now like accepting her calls and whether or not i should. That was pretty much the extent of it.

Glad you cleared that up.

I am more worried about you becoming a "friend" to WxW. That is every wayward's dream. They feel less guilty that way because everyone is fine, and better off.

Be very careful.

What sorts of things would she need to discuss with you anyways that can't go through your IM?

Plan B is not designed to win back the WW its to give you some peace and move on with your life. You obviously have been unable to do that and I'm guessing (without having read your thread fully) that you never did a DARK Plan B?

The best thing you can do for you, is go to a Dark Plan B for your own good. You are divorced! Get out there start enjoying life have nothing to do with exWW. Maybe she'll see that and want to be a part of it, maybe not but go do it!

Mark actually did a darn good job at Plan B and staying dark. He had a RO against contact.

You have a lot of reading to do...

My apologies.....I wish you the best but would caution you on the dangers (for you) of remaining 'friends'

To be perfectly honest, the friend thing is a major concern of mine. In some ways, i feel guilty for allowing her to be there for me. Now if she calls, i feel like i need to atleast listen to her also.

Unfortunately, she was really the only one i had at that time. I don't have any real "friends", just a lot of acquaintences. My pastor is really my best friend and it was he who told her that i needed her.

That's why I am suggesting that you continue Plan B for a while without ANY contact. See how you feel in a couple of weeks. As I said, the more you communicate with her, the more you will crave it. You still have LB balance for her. You will be venturing into dangerous territory and a HUGE possibility of crossing over to friends. Can you see her calling you with problems about dating? She'll start to lean on you for EN meeting, only when she needs you.

As i think more about what i'm feeling now, craving is not how i would exactly describe it. Understand that i have absolutely no desire to pursue or initiate anything. If she never calls, i would be perfectly fine.

As far as the LB balance, I'm not sure that will ever go away. While I agree with 99.9% of what Dr. Harley says, his unconditional love stance is one i will say i don't. Unconditional love, it seems, is being confused with accepting anything from a person as long as they remain a part of your life. That's not the biblical definition.

Biblically speaking, and with God as our ultimate example, it means loving the unlovable. It means being willing to love in spite of flaws. It doesn't mean you have to let them use you. You can love from a distance until the opportunity comes where you can love up close.

Unfortunately, when Dr. Harley says the phrase "unconditional love" doesnt appear in the bible, he is both correct AND incorrect. In most english translations, it is not there but when you study the Greek text, you discover two different Greek words that translate into english as love - phileo (the root of Philadelphia) which means brotherly love, a love based on what someone does or doesnt do and agapeo which is means unconditional love, a volitional love. A large marjority of passages in the NT use agapeo, especially those that refer to God or Christ.



HECK NO! I won't let that happen. EVER!