And while I am at it, "yeah thanks Facebook" is right!

Steel, if what you want is a way to talk about divorce, there is a forum for divorce. You will get much more advice over there about that topic. This here is about how to survive an affair by using MB and DrH's concepts of Plan A and Plan B(Not Plan XYZ). Good luck to you.

Thanks, I did not know that. Look guys I really do appreciate all of your comments and concerns and they really have helped me. I will move over to the divorce forum because that is really where my entire focus is.

Click notify and ask the mods to move forums.

You really do need to bring your A game when divorcing a wayward. Read Art of War in my sig!

Come back here if you need any more affair related advice. Send your son here if he wants to expose. It has to be handled properly, its not just about letting people know.

Plus take good care of you. Eating, sleeping etc. That stuffs important yanno.

Steel,

Stay here for now. This saga isn't over.

I say this as a man who has been in your shoes and in your kid's shoes.

The reality is that the kids really want to see you and her stay together. I say this as a kid who went through it at roughly their age. Yes, the heinous act is tough to forgive, but kids secretly want the parents to find a way to reconcile.

I also wanted to weigh in to help you dispell the idea of the amicable divorce.

There is no such thing. Unless you're willing to surrender everything, there is no such thing.

You may wish to search for Chrisner's thread. He had a grown daughter like you, so there may be much you can relate to.

We've all been there. We've all felt your pain. We give you input not to criticize, but in recognition that massive life altering decisions shouldn't be made in an emotional state.

I also weigh in as a man who was told by his WW that we could have an amicable divorce. Amicable in her mind meant "give me all I demand. If you speak out, then I'll get ugly."

She also tried to tell me that by being amicable we increased our chances to reconcile later. I bought it at the time because I wanted to believe it.

It is a big lie. Don't believe it.

I strongly suggest you consult a lawyer at a minimum.

Your kids are grown, so you don't have a custody fight to worry about.

Truthfully, if my kids were adults, I'd have a hard time staying in a marriage after being cheated on.

Are you religious? Catholic?

Just be aware that that as a Christian you're expected to forgive and as a Catholic there is no such thing as divorce (which is why there are annulments). I say this again as a man going through the process in that regard.

Steel and his WW are using the SAME lawyer. Yes, I said it, the SAME one.

Steel, you don't need to move this thread, just start a new one over there too.

Ok, steel, since you want to go the D route (I think it's too early, but your decision is what's important because only you know your situation and your wife), let me emphasize a couple of things. I've just gone through 10 months of divorce process with an ExWife who wanted an 'amicable divorce' and wanted to remain 'friends' after it was over.

Repeat after me - There Is No Such Thing As An Amicable Divorce. It's an illusion. It;s like saying there are liberal Republicans or conservative Democrats. It's like being a Yankees AND Red Sox fan at the same time - impossible! Amicable and Divorce should never, ever appear in the same sentence. There are hundreds maybe thousands of people who post on this site - if there is even ONE who will tell his or her story of an amicable divorce, than I'll buy pizza for everybody here.

Next - get your own attorney. Using the same attorney is a disaster in the making. Did she hire the attorney? If so, that attorney has the duty, by law, to represent HER best interests, not yours and not the best interest of the couple. HERS.
Also, once the process starts, she will be getting input from that attorney as well as friends and relatives and most definitely from the OM. The input will be to get as much as she can out of the deal. That means making you look like the bad guy - you, and you alone will be the reason for her affair, and thus for the divorce. They will, to be blunt, eat your shorts. You won't know what hit you. Get your own attorney.

I feel bad that you're going to plan D without giving the MB process a chance. Truth be told, it doesn't work for everyone - it didn't for me. It didn't save my marriage, but I'm still really glad I tried to follow the advice I got here and the plan, because I learned a lot about myself and I'm a better man today. I know I will do much better in my next relationship. And, this might be most important, on those occasions when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't sleep because the questions keep coming and keep coming; 'Did I do ALL I could to save this marriage?' 'Did I give WW the opportunity to get out of the fog and go back to being the woman I once loved so much?' 'Did I really give recovery a chance before I blew up my family?' I can honestly answer yes to all those types of questions, and that makes living every day a lot easier. No regrets, no turning back.

God Bless and good luck - see you on the Divorced/Divorcing forum.

Linus

Sorry for the TJ Steel. NG, I take on board the "remorseful and willing to do whatever it takes" puts an entirely different slant on whether a BS wants marital recovery or not after D Day. Your post has given me food for thought... I can't come up with any recent MB threads where the WW has moved out and later has returned for marital recovery either!

AM points out Sue and Jon. IRL, my IM was a WW who left her BH but later returned for marital recovery. There are older MB threads where BH's were sucessful in leading the WW back after separation (though again I think they may be lower than BW's with WH's).

The BH seems to have a tougher fight with less odds of success. Not impossible odds though. Dr H isn't recommending BH's do a 6-month Plan A for nothing (if the BH is up for it of course). TJ over.

Steel, I think your decision to Plan A until she leaves will help with your own personal recovery, in Plan B or D.

Whoah, just catching up and seeing the amicable divorce ideas. I see you are getting great advice from some BH's who have been there, done that, and it ain't amicable.

I'm going through it too. My WH initially thought we would be best of friends... he kept telling me how I was his "best friend" and always would be. Blah. D Day put a stop to that. There is no such thing as an amicable divorce, unless one side willingly becomes a doormat.

Caracal, I will tell you that IRL, I have actually seen a WW return after a separation to attempt MR. My mother. She left my father on Aug 6th, 2008, and returned on May 15th, 2010. Now, my father did an instinctive Plan A that whole time. He started by calling her. Then, they would meet secretly at a park, and just talk. They even went out on dates. This was all behind OM's back. I did try to help my dad, and even had suggested that he go into PLan B, but he wouldn't. He went through A LOT of pain. My mom said that she returned because she realized how much he loved her, and he had always loved her.

Now, almost 2 years into their "Recovery" and they are limping along in almost an identical Pre-A marriage, and they are both not happy. I pointed them here. I even loaned my mom SAA. They have a lot of issues that they need to deal with, but they choose to ignore it instead. I have stepped out of it.

I just wanted to show that there ARE cases where a WW comes home for MR. The number ONE thing you need to do is kill the affair. In my mom's case, OM did that. He was a jerk, and my mom saw my dad as her best option. He still is, if they would only fix their marriage.

Sorry about the t/j Steel. Just wanted to pipe up that WW's AREN'T impossible to lead back, it just seems like it.

steel, you are getting great advice here, but you are operating from a position of fear. you need to get on board, take control, and FIGHT. i love the fake facebook page idea - slice of fried gold!

you are actually in a great position of power. your WW is the one out on the high wire without a net. take control now and follow the MB principles.

it's hard to believe right now, but both BS and WS follow a pretty basic script in the discovery of an affair. the people here can tell you, pretty accurately, what both you and your WS will say and do next should you not follow the principles. they can also, having been exactly where you are, tell you what will happen if you stand up as the one to fight this affair. start now!

yes, you will be confused, hurt, angry, and change your mind several times (a day even!) over the next several months. so you have to decide. do you want to be married, or not? if so, "steel" yourself for the hard work of fighting the good fight and get going. enlist whomever you can to help. don't know facebook? get your sons or sister, or whomever to help you out. i would recommend that you unblock the facebook "ticker" on your/your sons computers. just hovering over the info there can help you discover info that is technically blocked via individual's FBs settings. if you can't get him friended direct, try friending his friends! of course, use a fake account, not your own or your sons.

Scotty, I started the "returning WW rarity" sidebar, and did mention that there had to be one or two stories that demonstrate successful reconciliations after the WW moves out.

That said, I'd be hard-pressed to classify your parents' story as much of a success.

...she returned because she realized how much he loved her, and he had always loved her...they are limping along...and they are both not happy...They have a lot of issues ...but they choose to ignore it instead....(OM) was a jerk, and my mom saw my dad as her best option...

This could scarcely be called a return to the "marriage" (as you already hinted) as much as it is a flight to sanctuary(?). In my familiar "Clint Eastwood" construct, it seems they have both agreed to settle for the "Ugly".

But Scottys example is an ideal one showing how often false recoveries result from not following the plans.

Not following the plans on the assumption the WS is done for good is folly because most affairs end v shortly.

The plans first and foremost protect the BS from the temptation of getting into a FR - I have never really viewed them primarily as a wooing device to get the WS back, because as Scotty shows that happens on its own often.

Having read your thread steel,

hmmm. Think it over.

You have been married to your wife for 26 years. Probably dated a few years before that.
You have been happily (from what you said) married for so long.
You've loved each other, she gave birth to your sons.
You wanted to do fun things together with your future grandchildren.
Your wife knows you better than anyone, how you like your breakfast, when to leave you alone, you know her quirks.
You have loved her for so long and have been planning to grow old with this woman.

Are you giving every one of those 26 years up and essentially giving way for a sleazy other man? A vague illusion from 32 years ago, clothed with lots of projections, wishes and irrealistic dreams from your wife's head?
You are presenting him what could have been your life on a silver plate.

This affair is nothing!
You know it.
We know it.
Everyone in their right mind know it.
Your wife is blindsided.

If you've ever loved her, at least save her from this dirty old man.
If you have any self respect whatsoever, destroy his little world.
If you want to look into the mirror with pride, BE SOMEONE WITH PRIDE. Take your pride back.
Take your life back.

At the very LEAST snoop and expose.

1. Get the info.
Hire a PI if you must. Ask someone who went to class with them, anyone. Put a voice activated recorder in the room where she makes her daily phone calls with OM during work hours. Be Sherlock Holmes. Someone you know, must know someone he knows. Maybe you or your sons can engage your MIL in a casual conversation.

2. Make a list.
Make a list of all of his family members, who might be able to influence OM.
Make a list of all of your wife's family members, this includes your MIL. Who knows what twisted story your wife told her.
Make a list of all of OM and wife's friende.
Make a list of people who can offer you moral support, practical help, info, etc. Include your sons.

3. Ask for help.
Take the lists and contact all of those people to ask them to help influence your wife to not make the biggest mistake of her life by throwing away 26 years of sound marriage for a faible chance with an old man, she essentially did not know when she made her decision.
Ask OM's contacts to tell them to leave your wife alone.

4. Ask your wife out for a date.
A date???? Don't tell her it is a date. Tell her it is for closure (haha).
Take her to a fancy (I mean really expensive) restaurant with a fantastic view. Fill her up with some whine. Tell her how you appreciated her through the years. How beautiful she looked as you took your vows. How thrilled you were when she told you she was pregnant. How gorgeous she looked as she carried your children. Talk with her how you will miss the good times >insert lots of good memories here<. Hold her hand, look her in the eyes.
She woud have to be of stone if this would not bring about some serious love bank units.

5. Get some serious legal advice.
Get advice on how to do what you want. When you have a business of your own, you will be able to hide assets, 'lose' money, have much 'debt', there should be some possibilities where she cannot take you for alimony anyway. You can sell the business for 20 dollars to your sons, and so on. I am sure that there are other things to do than beg for her mercy and handle from fear.

6. get some posture.
Be a shining example for your sons how a man carries himself in a difficult situation. Don't show them how a broken man CAVES in a difficult situation.

Never give in.
Never, never, never, never.
Never yield in any way, great or small,
except to convictions of honour and good sense.
Never yield to force and the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
Winston Churchill

And we all know who won the war.

You had 26+ good years together. Now you've had 2 bad months.
Go. win. this. war.

God bless you

Happyheart

The two that I remember are mywifeilove (main thread here.) and MortarMan (too many to list, see his threads here.) I haven't seen mywifeilove around in 4 years, but Mortarman has been around this month.

Sadly, those are the only two examples that come to mind.

Yeah, MortarMan I knew of. One other active poster here still has a shot, but it's not looking good.

Putting that scant list against the dozens(?) of moved-out WWs who stay moved out is....depressing.

Sorry for the downer, steel, but situational awareness is never a bad thing.

And what a coincidence! That "one other active poster's" reason his sitch is not looking good is for the exact same reason as this one.

Hmmmm - methinks steel has left the party.
If not, I hope he reads happyheart's post above. Great post!

I'll throw myself in this boat too. My W has been gone for nearly 5 months. I think my chances are increasing with my Plan A. It was hard at first, but it's part of my daily routine now.

GJM - you were the poster I had in mind. I'm glad you see a better future than your recent past, but until she's home....she's away, and the longer that lasts, the more inertia may set in as separation becomes the new normal.