One of the best newsletters, IMO.

How Can Trust Be Restored
After An Affair?


LINK to Dr Harley newsletter

I did not want any of you 'recovery forum' MB'ers to miss this gem.

Pep,

So, according to Dr. H's newsletter, when a (F)WS says that he/she can be trusted even moreso than BEFORE the affair....that could actually be a true statement?!?

Yes, when the BS sees the WS consistently using POJA and PORH.


Makes perfect sense to me. As I look back at my own FR, clearly there was still IB and lack of O&H going on. Big red flags. No wonder I was uneasy...

As a BS having a FWW, while we are in recovery now, follwing MB's principles to the fullest extent, the most hauting question is: Even though they SAY they are committed to the process and are indeed folling POJA, and Policy of Radical Honesty, ARE THEY REALLY? or is it just a front?

When you have been lied to SO much for SO long, it is nearly impossible to believe anything they say.

So the lingering question always is there: are they doing what they say they are doing?

I continue to snoop to find any thread of evidence of dishonesty. I don't think I can keep this up forever.

I do not think what you wrote is a " true statement", as written.

Then how would it need to be written in order to make it "true"?

Adding that the FWS MUST be following POJA and PORH?

Thanks!

But doesn't snooping take away your lingering questions and BUILD TRUST? The most effective trust builder in my marriage was snooping. It is a good thing, not a bad thing. Just think, if you had been snooping BEFORE the affair, you might have prevented it.

Yes, snooping does help. And you are right, if I would have snooped before, things might have been different. It is the old �hindsight is 20/20 thing�. A step further, I would have done many things differently if I would have known of MB�s before FWW affair.

However, as you well know, Wayward�s are the ultimate sneaks. I have snooping techniques set up pretty darn well now and we seem to be in recovery. But, if someone wants to do something bad enough, they will find a way.

My FWW SWORE for 9 months that all contact had ended. Period. Come to find out, alternate email accounts were created (on her work computer), the affair went deeper underground and we had a FR.

My snooping uncovered the FR. Thank god. Now though, I continue to be suspicious every day. The hardest part is believing anything she says, which I don�t. I confirm and validate everything. It is very taxing, Mel. Very taxing. My FWW is posting under affair forum as Clearmind. She is looking for help.

Please help her. Please help us.

But they won't get away with it if you are snooping though. There is no way my H could get away with it. And if he had a job where he could get away with it at work, that would change. The job has to complement my marriage not the other way around.

20 Year - I hear you! I feel absolutely the same way. What is the truth? When can you believe them truly and completely again?

I have snooped and snooped and felt perfectly fine. There was no contact... and then WHAM a year later out of the blue he calls the POSOW to make sure she is ok. 6 months later I'm wondering how much longer until the next time he does something like this again. Next month? Next year? 5 years from now? He says he won't. But he said that 18 months ago too.

We have a great marriage now. Better than it ever was before. However this is my biggest stumbling block. I am here on the bboards today because I'm feeling vulnerable again. I've got those hairs on the back of my neck that are standing up. My guard is up. I'm not fully sure that what I'm hearing from him is even close to the truth. Wondering if the last 18 months were just a sham and he's been using a calling card to reach her on a secret cell phone or...

I do think FR's are the worst. It not only set us back to the beginning by him making one stupid phone call, but it made it perfectly clear to me just how fragile this thing called "trust" really is. Recovery has been much more difficult this 2nd year. And it's really exhausting at times.

So - Just wanting to let you know, like we all do here, that you are not alone!

Having said that, I did forward the newsletter to my WH at work today and we've already made a date Saturday morning with some of our UA time to go over it and discuss it. We're also going to listen to a couple of the latest MB shows and talk. There are times I think he does get it.

But there are times where I'm positive he has this little flame compartmentalized away and can go to it and start a brush fire with it at any time. And it scares me. And makes me sad. And puts up guards that I feel like I shouldn't have with my own husband... And it frustrates him when we talk about it because he knows absolutely that it is his fault that I feel this way and can't trust him.

I know it's just going to take time. But with a FR I think it's even more time to rebuild anything that resembles trust...

TRUST, as defined by Dr Harley:
Trust is the belief that your spouse won't do anything to hurt you and will be honest with you. It assumes a level of care that forms a protective envelope around you.

According to Dr H:

POJA and PORA + time (estimated at approximately 2 years) = trust is created

Actually, BOTH spouses must be following POJA and PORH.

I trust my H.
The level of care he demonstrates towards me is tremendous.
It's his lifestyle now.
Mine as well.
Are we perfect at it?
No!
We work towards progress, not perfection.
But, it's been 16+ years ...

Even a peek of contact with OW sets the trust level to zero.
Your H gave himself permission to do something he knew would hurt you.
Is he is not interested in POJA? Or PORH?
If he is not, you are correct, you can should never trust him. Not for a second.

PlanAprincess .... Have you required POJA + PORH since this date?

I'll go take a look.
Please, if we get hard-assed with her, do not try & protect her.

Okay, Pep.

So, if my W is

maintaining NC
AND
meeting my ENs

then she is giving just compensation

AND, if we are BOTH practicing

POJA
PORH

then, while knowing we BOTH continue to WORK at this, it may be time (or may take TIME -- another year -- 2 years+ total) for me to let the past be the past, and absorb and accept that we MAY be doing okay, or even better than I sometimes think we are?

Honestly, it took me about 4 years.
But, don't forget, we largely began our recovery without MB & internet forums.
But, yes. The answer is yes.

Thank you, Pep.


I REALLY needed to hear that.

ESPECIALLY coming from YOU as I respect your honesty, care, and experience-supported advice.

Thank you

Using Dr H's definition, I absolutely trust my H today.
I was discharged from hospital yesterday after 2 weeks.
Every day, Mr Pep made a 100 mile round trip drive to meet my needs and demonstrate his care and devotion.

16 years ago, if you had told me this level of trust could ever be possible , I'd have told you to "take a hike". (only I'd have been a lot more rude & crude)
At the time (16 years ago) I couldn't trust my H not to lie.

Here is what Dr Harley says:



But I went back and looked at your thread and saw that your H has a traveling job and while he was away is when he had this phone conversation with OW. Even with following PORH and POJA, if proper EPs are not in place, trust will not be restored, I think that is a given. Did he change jobs so that there is no more overnight travel?

Also I noted that he told you straight up if the OW came to him and needed help he would help her. This is the absolute opposite of POJA. Was he just foggy when he said that? Or does he still have that attitude today?

The PAST can hurt.
LEARN from it !