I haven't posted on here in a while, but it has been such a roller coaster ride lately that I would love some advice from the members of this forum about how to proceed.

Brief update...I have been doing everything I know how to do to try to offer just compensation to my husband for my affair (almost 3 years ago). He knows where I am at all times, I do not associate with anyone (male or female) outside of the office, he always has access to my phone and computer, etc.

I thought things were going ok (not wonderful, but we were managing). About a month ago, he started to withdraw. He would say he is fine, but avoid having to be around me or speak with me. I thought it was just another cycle of down time because of painful memories...this happens quite frequently. However, this episode continued and I got worried. I snooped on his phone while he was out mowing the lawn and found an email exchange between him and another female in which he told her about how he has no feelings for me and hasn't since my affair. He said he feels like we simply exist to co-parent our kids. He also made some comments to her about how she 'made his day' with her email and how someday he hopes he gets to see her twirl (she's a professional dancer).

I confronted him and he said that I hurt him so badly 3 years ago that he needs constant affirmation (apparently from other women). There has not been continued contact between him and this female since I spoke with him (I did install a keylogger on his computer and phone), and he is not having an affair. However, these words he exchanged with her caused me to question what my role is in this relationship.

I was absolutely the one at fault for breaking the vows in our marriage, and I hate what I both did and allowed to happen. My husband now says that he's so broken because of what I did to him that he wants to go through a weekend-long program to 'fix' himself and figure out what he wants for his life. This weekend is for him alone, and it is the first weekend in March...about a month from now. He says he doesn't want to make any decisions about the fate of our relationship until after this event.

He has told me that he is not in love with me anymore, but that it's not because of anything I'm doing or not doing correctly - it's just the memories. Meanwhile, I'm kind of stuck in this limbo situation for at least the next month until he decides whether or not I'm the one he wants. This is excruciating...no affection, no meaningful conversation, I'm not included in anything he plans, etc. When I try to get him to open up to me in any way, he tells me to wait until after this weekend event.

I can respect that the damage I've done to him may be something he is never able to overcome. However, I feel like my life is in a holding pattern until he decides what we're supposed to do. Did my affair take away all of my rights to have a voice in this marriage? Do I just need to be patient and trust that he will correctly lead our family? Do I have any right to be hurt and jealous by him conversing with another female about our relationship?

Thanks in advance for your help and words of guidance.

Wow. Recovering the marriage means recovering a MARRIAGE. Not a relationship where he gets everything and you get nothing. Not a relationship where you take precautions to protect the marriage and he does not.

And one of the most basic precautions to protect the marriage is not having intimate conversation with members of the opposite sex!

Regardless of your affair in the past, I would make this precaution on his part a condition of continuing the marriage. I would give the exact same advice to a person in a marriage in which no affair has occurred.

What is your husband's posting ID here?

KF,

Have you and your H been working the MB Program?

Do you and your H spend 15+ hours of "Undivided Attention" together??

Have you both been practicing POJA & PORH since the affair??

What is the name of this seminar your husband wants to attend?
Can you find a sitter and attend the seminar too?? You really need to attend on your own if he is opposed to attending as a couple. I know I would!

Thank you, Markos, for your reply.

My husband does not post here. I begged with him for months to do phone counseling with the Harley's, and we did a few sessions with them, but my husband didn't want to continue.

He's convinced this weekend seminar (I believe it's called Focus??) is going to give him some sense of how to heal.

HerPapaBear,

I have been trying to follow MB principles to the best of my ability, but my husband is extremely independent and does not like to be told what to do (especially if I am the one recommending it).

The weekend seminar he wants to attend is several thousand dollars...he has decided to spend that money without my knowledge and we do not have enough extra money for me to attend as well. Also, he was instructed that he'll need to spend the night close to the event (even though it's in town) so as to not get distracted during the teaching. I assume I would be the distraction...

KF, HerPapaBear's questions are exactly the things I wanted to ask next. You said things were going sort of well, but the things he is asking about are the things you guys would need to do to really work this program so things can go really well.

KF,

Did your H ever confront OM or expose him widely, or did he expect you to do so for him? Sometimes BHs expect their WWs to perform certain actions, but don't want to tell them what to do as they want it to come sincerely from the WW.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,
Yes, the OM was exposed to everyone...he was the associate pastor of our church and resigned the day after d-day. All family and friends (and even some random people on the street) know all of the details.

We do not get to spend enough UA time together currently, primarily because my husband doesn't want that if or until he decides this marriage is what he wants.

He also does not agree with PORH or POJA. He is very successful in business and believes he should have the final say in financial decisions because he is the one who has grown his company. For example, he recently committed to providing his sister with a large sum of money each month without telling me...I found out by accidentally seeing a text from her. I do also work, but my income pays for the kids' education, insurance, groceries, and utilities...there is rarely expendable income from what I bring home.

He has the same mindset regarding POJA...we are a Christian family and as such, he is the head of the household. If I disagree with something, he says he takes that into account and then he makes the final decision.

In typing all of this out, I feel like I'm portraying my husband to be more controlling than he actually is. I do not want to divorce, but I'm not sure how to make him fall back in love with my without becoming a doormat to his every want.

KF,

The religious aspect is also difficult to take.

My W was taking OM4 to church with her and it really bothered me, although pre-MB it didn't seem like a problem only an annoyance, as I though her taking OM4 to church was the moral thing to do.

When I put a stop to her doing so the people at church were surprised and mentioned something about getting some of the men in the congregation to pick OM4 up. I think that's similar to what you wrote about the congregation not being informed from the pulpit about the assistant pastors affair. When a church no longer supports families it undermines its entire purpose.

God Bless
Gamma

Keepfighting, I would go read Dr Harley's article titled "When to call it Quits." That newsletter addresses your kind of situation and gives you a plan to resolve it. When to Call It Quits - Part 1

You can either sit around feeling sorry for yourself or you can map out some plans for personal and marital recovery.

Only you can provide just compensation and only you can prevent yourself from being a doormat.

You have choices!

We are also a Christian family, and as such that means we are committed to providing extraordinary care for each other, since we made a covenant of marriage with each other. Among other things, that means we are committed to not being thoughtless of each other's feelings. To me being a Christian husband requires a commitment to not take or require actions that are contrary to my wife's feelings.

I don't see that that undermines me being the head of our family in any way. Teams have a captain, but a good captain understands that he is wiser when he uses more than his own frail wisdom to make his decisions.

Understood. I have no intention of sitting around feeling sorry for myself. I was only trying to be sensitive to my husband's wants/needs instead of telling him what I think he has to do in order for this marriage to be successful.

I think I will write down what I would like from him in our marriage and gauge my next steps by his response. I feel like it's a fine line between telling him what I need and nagging at him.

KF,

Have you read Dr. Harley's books?

If so, which ones?

KF, you need to find out more about this seminar and do all you can to stop your H attending it. If it is a seminar focused on individual growth or anything like that, it could be positively destructive to your marriage. Just because it is Christian - and I think Focus on the Family is a Christian organisation (I'm British, so a bit unclear on all the groups over there) does not mean it is dedicated to rebuilding your marriage. Quite the opposite could be true.

Someone on MB had a WS who was coming round to rebuilding. (So the opposite way round from your situation.) The WS went to a self-help weekend and learned that the so-called Christian action that should be taken was to leave the marriage. I can't remember who this was, but someone on here will know so that you can look up the story. The result was that the marriage broke up and never recovered. You must not let this happen. The only weekend seminar your H needs is the MB one. Try all you can to get him to switch to this, and even if not, at least to drop the other one.

Dr and Mrs Harley's latest book Draw Close is required reading for Christian couples like you. It shows you how Dr Harley's policies are supported and inspired by Biblical teachings. Each policy is explained using Dr Harley's own words as well as passages from the Bible. If he reads this, your H will see why POJA is recommended in a Christian marriage, by the Bible itself.

Get the book from Amazon or the bookshop here online.

I have read His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. My husband has not read these...but he has listened to me talk about both of them over the last three years.

I so wish I could convince him not to attend this seminar. Unfortunately, his parents have some friends (a married couple) who went through it and said that it opened their eyes. My husband confides in and values his parents judgement, so when they said that they thought it would be beneficial for him, he signed up. He has already paid the money and reserved his hotel room for the weekend, and he is convinced that it will lead him in the direction his life is supposed to take.

I just ordered Draw Close...thank you for that recommendation.

Can you at least find out the details of the seminar? It might not be as bad as I think - but I cannot see how it can be designed to solve marital problems if people are allowed to go as individuals. It is most likely something along the lines of individual self-advancement - which is disastrous to marriages.

Can you find details online?

Yes, I've been researching this online. It is not a Christian organization (not affiliated with Focus on the Family). From what I can tell, it is just called "Focus Seminars" and he's supposed to attend a 3-day workshop called "The Inspired Life". Looks very new-age to me, but I might just be overly skeptical.

It is not a marriage seminar...more about overcoming personal obstacles and realizing your full potential. Sounds like a marketing scam...

New-age idiots often encourage people to abandon their lives and go in search of themselves. Theirs is the Eat Pray Love philosophy at its finest.

KF, this sounds very similar to a seminar that my husband and I attended while we were in a false recovery. It was a great "feel-good" seminar, with lots of rah-rah'ing, true confessions and team building, but in the end we all just went back to our lives. Within a week, the seminar was forgotten.

The worse thing about it was that my husband ended up moving in with one of the guys he met at this seminar and things went from bad to worse... well, you can read my story to get the rest.

My point is that I don't see how this seminar will help your marriage, at least long-term.