LNL2,

I just read Dorry's story (the link that WPG sent you). If you have not read it yet, you need to.

Fifteen

I read it, actually have re-read it several times.

I actually sent it to my H via email. Im not sure if he read it but I am going to ask him and if not I am going to see if he will let me read it to him. It really touched me and mirrors us so much.

Hi Lost,

I'm very happy to hear you have stayded here and of your resolve, and no one should be more impressed than you are of yourself.

Now, a short sermon (not at all MB related)! *s* I've heard alot over the years about Christ's supposeded reference to 'dying to gain eternal life'. or 'you have to lose your life to save it', or the 'wheat seed'. etc. This never really phased me much over many years becuae it was never explained or interpreted well in my church. You could take it literally, like the martyrs, but that always seemed stupid to me. I must have been dense, because just now, reading in a little 'relfections' booklet given out by my church way back at beginning of Lent it was explained pretty well. It simply means change - abandoning things that you do that are harmful and hurtfull to yourself and to others, and adopting practices that are the opposite - beneficial to others as well as to yourelf. To give up things that are pleasing to you but are harmful and adveresly affect others is sort of 'dying and rising to a new life' in a way. So, now after all of these years I think I understand a simple priest's explanation in a simple little book about a concept that has evaded me. So, you are 'dying' now in the hope of ressurecting and recovering your M. It's going to be tough, and you have no control over your h's response, but it is for you as well.

I personally think if you endure this, whether or not your M is saved, you could be a tremendous example and comforter in the future to the so many who come here without the understanding and the hope that the sacrament of marriage truely is.

Tom

Lost,

On your H's drinking, yeah you created a traumatic situation that laid the ground for your HUSBAND'S DECISION TO RESORT TO DRINKING. You did NOT drive him there. He decided to kill his discomfort and pain in that manner over something he didn't feel he could handle as your H. Big difference between your creating stress and his decision to choose that out!

I really beg you now to do the following two things:

1) Contact Dr. S. Harley to at least begin to obtain his input on your initial steps and his advice on how to progress, and
2) If you feel it is urgent or appropriate, contact your local Al-Anon for guidance if you feel his current drinking is creating more of an obstacle to saving your M.

Marital, with truely due respect I beleive it is too soon for Lost to invite her H here unless she feels comfortalbe with that. I think the best course at this moment would be for Lost to take the lead and contact Dr. Harley for an individual appt.

Tom

Tom, so good to hear from you, my friend! You sound great! Actually, my concern is for Lost's husband's comfort right now - not hers (no offense, Lost ) He needs to be in the Infidelity Med Center right now for some triage work. Lost needs to do what it takes to recover her marriage, even though it might make her a little uncomfortable.

Thanks Tom for all your encouraging words. Each day is getting a little harder and my H drifts away a little more. He says he wants to be by himself. That he doesn't want to hold anyone and doesn't want anyone to hold him. I did go look at places to rent today.

One part I don't understand, and maybe someone can help me with this. He fought so hard to get me back and then 2 days after I am back and with no contact with OM, then he decides he can't do this and wants a D. It is kind of like he has collapsed with exhaustion from fighting so hard and long. Now he knows I am back and safe, so he can now think about himself for a change, and after taking the time to think, he decided it isn't what he wants. He stood by me and wouldn't leave my side and now he can't be in the same room with me. Please someone help me with this thought.

Hi again Lost,

"Now he knows I am back and safe"

From a guy's standpoint, I can understand his reaction and being married for 40 years I believe I can understand your concern. However, your statement above is not valid. Just from a guy's standpoint, he doesn't feel safe in believing you're truely back at this moment, so you are assuming he does! He lost you for awhile to your OM. He has to feel that he is going to truely win you back again and this is going to take alot of time - months, years. You have to understand that a man's pride runs deep, especially concering his wife and family, and once that pride and trust is affected by a wife devoting herself to another, it is going to take along time for him to feel his W is really back and that is is safe for him to reveal himself. You're tormenting yourself in attempting to rush things and expect too much from him at this moment. All the things about laying in bed together and hugging briefly are just superficial now and mean nothing! He is most likely conflicted as to whether you are 'back' due to the marital obligation, or your true devotion to him. You have to win his trust again. This is just my take, and not official MB.

Lost, this is nothing against you or your plan and your intention to change and recommit to your M as you stated. It is just simply, as I have suggested, to exercise patience. This is just going to take longer than I feel you may be thinking now. I also have a feeling that your sense of urgency of expecting him to 'move on' might be visible to him! So, take it slow - baby steps again . Like, increasing the Undivided Attention time, more date evenings, etc. etc. During this Holy Week (in my faith) you will have some prayers for me and your sitch.

One last thing, stay close to Marital and the others here who are willing to stay with you in this course.

t/j Marital, I recall awhile back I called you a saint for the work you do here. No, I don't mean being elevated by the Pope or any group of people. I mean just a simple human who just simply seems to extend herself for the benefit of others! You've touched my life in a positive way and I am honored that you would refer to me as friend.

Tom

LNL2

Take this as only my speculation..............................

My take from what you write.


BH possibly has collapsed with exhaustion from fighting so hard and long except he may have never played out the scenario of you going N/C and making attempts to repair the M.

He appears to have covered up (then 2 days after I am back and with no contact with OM, then he decides he can't do this and wants a D) to defend himself the only way that seems reasonable in his mind.

What happens now days by the worlds standards? OH-my spouse had an affair-we are getting D'd-move on-move out-shack with the OP long before the D is final. NEXT. No big deal.

Quite possibly with the situation BH did not see the possibility of Recovery and has no clue how to respond except cover up and self protection.

BH has you back-Now what do I do?

We could play this scenario out over and over. I am no mind reader...just speculating.

I think MaritalBliss was right to see if you could get your BH to post here. Who does BH have to talk to in confidence that understands because they have been there-done that? You both would need to agree to stay off each others threads.


I still think you have a window of opportunity here. Only my opinion... but keep in mind that your BH would more than likely actively persue the D if that is what he really wanted.

WPG posted you links to other WW's. Did you look at Looking4's. Did you go back and read from the start? Look at the date she started and all the pages wrote. This bus is not going to turn in a few short weeks or months. You are running a marathon. Not a sprint.

Good to see your list of EP's. Did you give your BH the list?

You said in an earlier post you are thinking of moving out. That would only show BH that you are not serious about marital recovery. Is that your wish? Moving out would only make the MB's program harder for you to work.

Did you get your copy of SAA yet? You could leave it lie around the house where your BH may pick it up and may at least read.

You could always e-mail the Harleys. You may be able to line up a call with them to MB's radio. Dr H would have some words of advice.

You are pretty new here and wht you have just entered (MB's program) will take a lot of time and persistance on your part. Positive responses from your BH may come painfully slow in your world.

Best to you

nESRE

Tom..I do feel an urgency, yet I am trying to take it as slow as I can. I feel I am on a time clock...Me vs. H filing for D. He and I communicate more right now through texting while he is at work then when we are face to face, I know that is not good, but that way he cannot cut me off when I am trying to get my thoughts out there. The problem is he is very cruel and outspoken in texting then when he is home and face to face with me. Yesterday, he told me he was filing for a D and I needed to be ready in a text message in a reply to a text I sent him. At home face to face he apologizes for not being able to return my love when I tell him I love him. He hasn't mentioned a D to me face to face for a while. Let me also add, the texts I send him through out the day is expressing my love for him and just some upbeat positive words for him.

My H did assume that I would leave and go running to the OM. When I told him I wasn't going anywhere, he expressed his anger to me, "so you have put me through all this and you don't even want the man?" I have not been with the OM in 7 months. We continued contact through texting and some phone calls. I have run into him in public 3 times (I think) and one of those times my H was with me. He did not see him until we were in the parking lot driving away. At first my H gave me permission, so to speak, to keep up the texting in order to break away slowly. I did not stick to his guidelines for it though and continued any hours day or night. Honestly, I was addicted to all the "pretty words" that felt good to hear. The same words that rebuilt my self-esteem and started the EA in the beginning.

H will not come here. He lacks computer literacy, but is learning. As far as I know, he is not talking much to anyone about our situation. I did talk to a mutual friend of ours the other day and asked him if he would stop by and talk to him, because he needs to get this out. This mutual friend is a FWS with a success story. After talking with the friend he did tell him he could believe part of what I was telling him now. The thing he did tell me afterwards was not to confuse me with them. He was happy they were able to save their marriage, but he couldn't do it, he couldn't forget.

I have been reading all the links that everyone is posting and many have really helped me. I do appreciate those referrals.

I have not gave my H the list of EPs yet. I really want to have a couple more things completed first, so it seems more real to him. We have had a situation come up that we have had to focus on the last couple days and I am having surgery today, but I will have that ready to give to him tomorrow. No, I have not received the SAA book yet, I do expect it today.

Thank you also on the advice on not moving out yet. I had initially expected to be laid up for approximately 2 months after surgery and my H wanted me to be here so that I could get help, but they are trying a different procedure to see if it will work first and I should be on my feet in a couple days. In a text message yesterday my H had stated that he wanted to be by himself and that is why I went ahead and started looking for somewhere to move to now. I don't want to go before I have to and I don't think he should be alone. He had told me and our children he would continue to help me and he wasn't going to just put me out on the street. I still need to find work, but I do have the money set aside to go ahead and move out if I need to before then while I am looking.

LIL2,

I would not move out until he actually says "Move Out". Let the next two months be a time to heal, you physically and emotionally and your H as well. A lot of what he says is out of hurt and pain.

I can not give you any advice that matches what others have said. You have the most amazing mentors on this site walking you through the long road ahead.

Just keep working on you and your goals! I wish you the best with your surgery and everything. I will continue to stay close by and help you in any way that I can.

Sending Prayers, Patience, Perserverance, and Strength your way!

I would have to agree with the others who say not to move out, until he makes you. Your story is very similar to mine- I had surgery about a week or two after DDAY, and my husband was saying a lot of the same things. I was at my parents house after surgery for 2 weeks (was already planned that way, even before DDAY). But as soon as I could come back home, I did- even though my BH didn't necessarily want me there- he didn't tell me I couldn't come.

Give him the EP list, show him you're working on the stuff on the list. Some can be accomplished right away, others take time(to accomplish and for him to actually see you're serious). My BH told me the other day that he had been thinking about how easy it would be to leave if I wasn't being so disciplined and putting so much effort in. In the beginning though, he told me many times that it wasn't going to matter to him what I did...but that I should do it for myself.

I am probably one of the most impatient people ever, so it has been a definite exercise in patience for me. Just don't give up. It sucks, I totally understand how you feel. I try to read as many BS threads as I can, b/c I really feel like I can get a better grasp on the pain my BH feels- we'll never be able to fully comprehend, but it helps IMO.

Someone was talking about emails- when my BH wouldn't really talk to me at all, I sent him an email pretty much every day, just pouring out everything that I wanted to tell him, that I loved him/was sorry/etc. He never replied, but he always read them. I still often send him emails, usually when we're apart for work. He never replies, but he always reads.

Don't give up. And don't stop coming here, you will find so much support, help, and advice here. Good luck with your surgery- hope everything goes well!

LNL2,

Our D-Day was a year and a half ago. My WH has done close to everything right since then. I have let my taker run amok for over a year, angry and resentful and unable to accept his need meeting, definitely not reciprocate with my own need meeting. I am just now starting to accept him and begin to fill his EN's too, ready to accept that there may just be a light at the end of the tunnel. Everyone is telling you to be patient, and I agree.

IMO, if your husband was really done, he would already have filed. Every time I told my WH I was 'done' I was really not done, but I was so angry and resentful and hurt I wanted him to grasp just how much damage and pain he had caused. I felt like it was my RIGHT to have a little attitude for awhile. If I was really 'done' his bags would have been sitting on the front porch, locks changed. You need to just suck it up right now, until. Until he is ready to start the process of rebuilding, or leaves your bags on the front porch.

FYI every time he says "I'm sorry" I hear it. Every time he does a kind thing I know it. I may not respond, but I know its there. You cannot falter from this path.

Thanks so much everyone for the encouraging words, they help keep me grounded. I am reading and hanging on to all the advice I am getting. I haved decided to not move out until he pushes me out the door. He is too carrying of a man to do that though...or at least he was. I had surgery on my foot today. It was minor surgery to see if they could keep from doing anything major. So, I am going to sit with my foot up and read the book SAA that I got in the mail today. H is going to bring home supper tonight.

A quote from my 4 year old DD today..."Mommy I don't know what happened to you, but I like who you are now". I know she has heard me say so many times, that I don't know what happened to me. I will agree with her when she says she likes who I am now, because I like who I am now too....I am ME again and I don't like who I was and never want to be that person again. I love my husband and children so very much.

LNL2, please do not be dicouraged by my post as I am posting as a BH and 2 false recoveries later. Others might not agree, this is just my take from my situation. I really didn't want to her my WW tell me she love/loved me during are attempts at recovery. In my mind there was no way she could love me and put our kids and myself thru this living he!!. I got tired of hearing the sorry's, they are just words. I heard and read her love and devotion to the OM and if she freely gave it away that easy to someone that is not their H then how can she say it now and it mean something. My point is what I needed was Action not words, show me why now you want to be here with me, show me what you have learned, show him with actions.

What you are saying I see in my H. I did tell him though, that no matter what, I will still be telling him I love him. I have cut things back a little on being overly affectionate, or smothering to him. During my A, him being overly affectionate was smothering to me and did not feel real, because it was not natural for him and it felt forced. He made every step I did. The only privacy I got was going to the bathroom. I had considered moving out, but decided as long as I am here where he can see me, then he is more likely to see the change. Thank you New Path for your post.

In your signature, it says "I'm done", is that how it ended? I do continue to hear those words.

LostNLove2,

You should try and hold on for at least 2 years after your last contact with OM, according to your thread just this March. This is worth doing for your 4 year old.

I'm assuming your H knows everything and you have no other undisclosed infidelities in the past which you still feel guilty about, and can go on in complete honesty.

God Bless
Gamma

LNL2, I am more then willing to assist you from a BH point of view, so you can ask me any questions you may have. Just remember this is just my thoughts.

If you are going to tell your H that you love him make sure it is at the right moment. Meaning when you can look him in the eyes with sincerity(not saying you're not doing it now). Don't say it over and over just a few times a day. When my Ww told me over and over I would start to roll my eyes, thinking yeah ok.

Do you know why he was being overly affectionate?

DO NOT MOVE OUT, that to me would show me that you are not even serious about recovery and I would just give up. He needs to see change, he's looking for it.

My story is long, 98% of the time I am done, there is still that 2% that hopes things would be a recovered M. I told her I was done more than enough, the reason why I said it was 1. being hurt and the pain, just wanting it to go away and 2. I was watching her actions to see if she would fight for me or just walk away. I was looking for proof that she was all in and wanted to recover before I would let there be a crack in my wall. I was protecting myself. To answer your question she ran away again but this time she stole my kids and I had to fight to get my DS back. The damage now is just to much.

t/j Tom, my friend, I am honored that you would say this. Thank you so much for this fine acknowledgement of my attempts to help hurting posters. Yes, I do consider you my friend and I think of you and Char often. If I were your neighbor, I would beg you to grow your tomatoes so I could show you how to make a bang-up batch of fried green tomatoes!

You're a good man, Tom.
end t/j