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#2612584 04/03/12 01:41 PM
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dlp436 Offline OP
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My husband has agreed to get counseling for some of his anger and other issues prior to us trying to work on our relationship. He has found a few nearby and that may be covered by our insurance but they all seem to have very different backgrounds and offer different types of services.

Does anyone have any experience to know what type of counseling works best for anger management and relationship issues? If he can work through this, we would eventually like to enroll in the MB program or therapy, but for now, this has to come first.

The links he sent me include therapists that specialize in:

-Psychotherapy - This person has a Master in Social Work, and a Bachelor in Psychology
-Cognitive & Behavioral Therapy - within the practice they have licensed psychologists with PhD, psychology aides, professional clinical counselors, licensed social workers, etc.
-Clinical/Social Work - Licensed Independent Social Worker Supervisor (LISW-S) and specialize in Dialectical Behavior Therapy, EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) and Cognitive Therapy and Solution-focused therapies.

There are probably others, but those are what I have for now. It seems that the 3 practices have completely different focuses and methods to treatment, but I am trying to get some advice on what works best. Thanks for any advice.

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dlp, anger management is an area where there are a lot of good ideas, and a lot of bad ideas.

The best starting point I know to recommend is Dr. Harley's chapter on angry outbursts in his book Love Busters. He also talks about this subject frequently on his radio show, and here are some great introductions to listen to:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2603602

Look for an anger management therapists who focuses on the techniques Dr. Harley talks about. Venting techniques are the exact opposite and actually reinforce the habit of anger, so avoid those. I did a few phone sessions with an anger management therapist who had a long list of venting activities to AVOID, and that was very helpful, but he did not emphasize learning the habit of relaxation in the face of frustration as much as Dr. Harley does.

I am a little bit worried that it is you here looking for this help and not your husband. He is the one who needs it. You need to be a partner in whatever he chooses, so it is important that you learn what works and what does not, but he needs to be the one taking the initiative here. If you are doing the legwork it doesn't bode well for the future.

Has your husband been physically violent toward you?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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dlp, did you listen to the radio clips I posted? The therapy needs to be focused on behavioral techniques that teach him to RETRAIN his brain when he feels anger. You should choose the program based on their TECHNIQUE, rather than their credentials, because many professionals are not qualified in anger management.

You need to read what Markos says about this because he went through this too. But go listen to the radio clips because Harley explains the TYPE of anger management that is effective. Many ARE NOT effective.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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there he is!! Thanks Markos!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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dlp436 Offline OP
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Thanks, Markos and ML!

My husband is the one that actually did the research on the therapists. He researched and then called them and was able to talk with a couple of them to get more information. He then sent them to me for my input. I felt overwhelmed just looking at the websites with all of their accreditations since they were SO different. I just want to make sure that he finds the right therapist so he can get help quickly so that we can move on to work on our relationship. I was hoping I might find someone here that had experience that could give us some advice or guidance.

I had listened to the Anger radio clips and read the articles, but at the time, wasn't taking notes or listening to specific types of therapy that worked, but just the overall message. I have read so much on this site that I think I am getting a little overwhelmed. smile I believe he has listened to them, too. But, I will make sure we both go back and listen and make sure he finds a therapist with similar techniques.

Markos, my husband has hit me in the past. It has been about a year since he last did it, but it was not the first time. It is something that has happened about once a year, and usually only 1 hit or something thrown, but it's still not acceptable. He frequently has AO, though, and many times stomps off, slams doors, yells, etc. The AO's happen with me and my children, but the abuse has only been with me. It is something that I have told him MUST stop or we cannot continue in our marriage. He is willing to get help and is trying to find the right person to do that, so I just wanted to help and get any advice that might help him make the right decision.

Thanks, again, for your advice!!

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Originally Posted by dlp436
Markos, my husband has hit me in the past.

dlp, do you have a baseball bat? I cured my first husband of hitting me by taking a baseball bat to his head. It was a great learning experience for him! And he has a reminder because he has never been able to grow hair there again! smile Do you have a way to defend yourself if he does that again?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by dlp436
Markos, my husband has hit me in the past. It has been about a year since he last did it, but it was not the first time.

If he ever does this again, will you call the police?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by dlp436
The AO's happen with me and my children, but the abuse has only been with me.

Since an angry outburst is abuse, and since he has had angry outbursts against your children, the abuse has been against your children as well.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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dlp436 Offline OP
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I am hopeful since he is going to begin therapy, that it won't happen again. However, I do know from reading this forum and books that it is a possibility. I do not know if I could call the police, unless the situation would get more out of hand than it ever has before. I would, however, protect myself and my children at all costs. I would probably just leave. I do not believe I could ever resort to violence.

I just don't see it getting to that point. My husband really does understand how much this has hurt me and our marriage and wants to change. He has been reading books, this forum and is trying to find a therapist. I have made sure that he understands that there will be no second chances.

I just got 2 of the books in the mail yesterday so will read the section on Angry Outbursts and have asked him to read it tonight as well. I had never considered that as abuse, but I see your point, considering it "hurts", too.

I listened to the radio archives and took notes and believe that the type of therapy that works best is more Pyschotherapy or Cognitive Behavior Therapy -- retraining the brain to react differently to a situation. I didn't hear them specifically refer to it as a specific type of therapy, but after looking online at the different types, it seems that these two fit best. This will help him in selecting a therapist. Thanks, again!

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Originally Posted by dlp436
I listened to the radio archives and took notes and believe that the type of therapy that works best is more Pyschotherapy or Cognitive Behavior Therapy -- retraining the brain to react differently to a situation. I didn't hear them specifically refer to it as a specific type of therapy, but after looking online at the different types, it seems that these two fit best. This will help him in selecting a therapist. Thanks, again!

dlp, even though a type of therapy is psychotherapy or behavioral therapy does not mean they know how to treat anger issues. You have to choose someone based on how they treat anger issues. Don't waste a minute of your time with someone who doesn't use the methods Dr Harley describes. Just because a person is a psychotherapist does NOT mean he/she uses an effective method. You have to SCREEN them based on the method they use.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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dlp436 Offline OP
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I appreciate the advice. He has been talking with one particular therapist on the phone that has been very willing to answer all of his questions. He has made an appt for this evening with this therapist and the therapist told him that if my H doesn't seem comfortable or doesn't feel it is the right type of approach, that he will help him find the *right* person. He has talked with a few practices that will not let him speak with the therapist directly, so he is crossing those off of his list. We also now have the LoveBuster book, so he is going to take that with him to make sure they are on the same page. Crossing my fingers!

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Originally Posted by dlp436
I do not know if I could call the police, unless the situation would get more out of hand than it ever has before.

If it gets that bad again, even if it is not "more," you need to call the police. It would have been good if you had called the police before.

My anger management therapist said that jail therapy is much more effective than traditional therapy. Dr. Harley's never said it quite like that, but he absolutely advocates calling the police if an angry outburst is physical. Every time.

Be sure that you are involved in your husband's anger management therapy. They will likely have some important advice for you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I do understand and WILL call if the situation presents itself. However, I have to wonder what Dr. Harley's thoughts are on calling the police and the impact it has on the children. Almost every incident that has happened over the years has been late at night when the kids were in bed or when they were not around, because I will not allow us to argue when they are around. It has been bad enough to live in a bad marriage, but I have tried my best to shield our kids from all of it. I'm sure there are times when they realize we are not getting along, but I try very hard to hide the worst from them. They have witnessed their Dad with angry outbursts toward me and toward them, but they have not seen him be violent. There was only one situation where one of our sons witnessed my husband throwing a set of Christmas lights toward me in the house when he was outside and they broke all over. I was upset with my husband for doing this, but I saw it more as a temper tantrum on his part, and was mostly upset because my son witnessed it.

First, I do not want my children growing up thinking that is acceptable behavior. Second, I do not want my children growing up with ill feelings toward their dad. I have spent the better part of my marriage shielding them from his temper and his emotional/physical abuse toward me so that they have a father they can look up to.

In all my younger years, I only heard my father raise his voice to me maybe once. I only witnessed hearing my mother and father argue just a few times. I appreciate and respect the lives they lived and gave to me and want the same for my kids. My husband does not respect his father and I think there was occasional physical and emotional abuse to him, physical being for disciplinary reasons. (belts, etc.) I just wonder if growing up with that as a child is why he does the things he does today. I guess that is up to the therapist to determine and help him correct.

I just don't want my children doomed for a life of anger and abuse either. I want them to grow up in a home with loving parents. They are great kids, straight A students, super involved, responsible, etc. but I hope the AO my husband demonstrates have not deep-rooted this into them for their future marriages, too.

Sorry, got off topic, but these have been concerns of mine for awhile. I guess my point is, that calling the police would DESTROY my kids. I am hoping it never comes to that point. To me, that is something they will not ever forget and will hold against him for life. I understand Dr. Harley counsels couples to restore their marriages, and while helping my marriage is important, I still have 3 kids to consider, too, and need to make sure I consider everything when making decisions.

Thanks, Markos!

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Sorry, got off topic, but these have been concerns of mine for awhile. I guess my point is, that calling the police would DESTROY my kids.

No, it would not. You getting killed would destroy your kids. Watching their bully father abuse you will destroy your kids. Watching their father being hauled off to jail for being a wife beater would help your children in many ways. It would protect them and their mother and show them that there are consequences for being a punk wife beater.

Your enabling of your husband is just as harmful as his abusive behavior. You hurt everyone by refusing to hold him accountable. It helps him by going to jail or having a baseball bat up the side of his head.

Originally Posted by dlp436
I do understand and WILL call if the situation presents itself. However, I have to wonder what Dr. Harley's thoughts are on calling the police and the impact it has on the children.

Of course, Dr Harley advocates calling the police. He is ADAMANT about calling the police, having your spouse thrown in jail and then SEPARATING for at least a year. That is the only sane course of action. If you don't put a stop to a punk wife beater, his abuse escalates and you could end up dead. Being dead has a terrible impact on your children.

You HARM your husband by not holding him accountable. Wife beaters need to be held accountable, and jail is a great place for them to be. With other criminals and thugs.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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**edit**

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Thanks for your post. **edit**

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Originally Posted by dlp436
I guess my point is, that calling the police would DESTROY my kids.

Angry Outbursts will destroy your kids.

In order for the angry outbursts to be eliminated, it is absolutely imperative that you call the police if he ever becomes physical again.

Quote
I am hoping it never comes to that point.

It has already come to that point in the past, and is extremely likely to come to that point again in the future.

When he gets physically violent, it has come to that point whether you like it or not, even if you are still hoping it never comes to that point.

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To me, that is something they will not ever forget and will hold against him for life.

If their father becomes violent toward them or their mother, they certainly should hold it against him. That is perfectly rational and healthy.

It's his job to act in an admirable way so that they will admire him. You can't do that for him, and trying to cause the children to admire him despite disadmirable behavior is not healthy for them, and not healthy for you. Don't protect him from the consequences of his action.

If he gets himself thrown in jail or whatever, it will be up to him to restore himself in his children's eyes by REFORMING and making appropriate amends. This is not the kind of thing that scars children for life; what scars children for life is having to live with such a situation without anyone to protect them by removing the aggressor from their environment.

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First, I do not want my children growing up thinking that is acceptable behavior

Right now you are planning to accept this behavior again if it happens again. What will this teach them? Will it accomplish this goal?

People who think that violence is unacceptable call the police when it occurs.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by dlp436
To me, that is something they will not ever forget and will hold against him for life. I understand Dr. Harley counsels couples to restore their marriages, and while helping my marriage is important, I still have 3 kids to consider, t

That is right that your children will never forget your husband's abuse. As they shouldn't. And they will never forget that you allowed it. That is horrible role modeling for children. Do you want your own daughter to allow her husband to smack her around and then do nothing about it? You want to cover up your husband's abusive behavior so your kids believe he is something he is not. Illusions don't make children happy and secure. Knowing the truth helps children navigate their lives the same as adults.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101



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