WOW, I just forwarded this to Dr Harley. I am so not surprised, though! I have studied nutrition for years and never cease to be amazed at how drug company interests and political correctness override the truth.

It gets even more interesting when researching serotonin levels and depression/anxiety! The very thing these drugs are supposed to work on. Turns out? Not a causation in depression. Wild stuff- and we have absolutely been sold a bill of goods by big pharma.

I am glad you forwarded it to him. It is absolutely eye-opening!

Ridicsit, in my personal experience with anti-depressants, they did absolutely nothing. I just felt like a robot for a year. I don't even remember that year. The difference came when I switched to omega 3 oil.

Same here. I felt like I was underwater.

ADs.....well....it isn't that simple.

They are not for feeling happy as much as for not feeling stuck in a negative trap.

Using them, according to Dr. Harley, helps a person to be able to see opportunities for positive change vs being not open to seeing them.

But how is taking a med with no efficacy above placebo for the vast majority of people useful? They aren't, for the vast majority of people- helping us see the possibilities. Our own brains are doing that simply by the suggestion that with this medicine on board we can. See the difference?

That's all I am saying. For people with severe depression and anxiety- they show a slight response above placebo . For everyone else- they are, to paraphrase the article, like " expensive tic tacs".

There are other ways to have forward motion and progress- instead of using medication that a) does not act on the proper mechanism for mood control and b) doesn't work above placebo for most.

I totally understand wanting to do something, to take medication- to do anything that gives forward motion. I have struggled with OCD, anxiety , and the giant mess of his affair. I wish AD's did as they were supposed to.

But research shows that talk therapy is the most effective route - and so is exercise, rest, and nutrition.

I am not in anyway belittling or minimizing how hard these things we face are- but we have to pay attention to the evidence. On here, at MB- isn't that what we say all the time? Evidence. Believe what we can verify? On the issue of AD's- the evidence is there , and it's telling us something different than what we are used to hearing- but it is not making it any less true. For situational
depression and anxiety- antidepressants by and large are not useful.

Knowledge is power. and power propels us forward.

( There are many other resources on this subject- I am happy to provide them, if people are interested)

The purpose is to eliminate depression. Depression makes one feel stuck and the point is that the pills don't make a difference.

Dr Harley only has access to the studies he has seen on anti-depressants and has made conclusions based on that. I sent him the article and will let you know what he says.

Ridicsit, as a person who was chronically depressed for most of my life, I found no relief in Paxil, but great relief in natural remedies. Even when my life crashed and burned in 1999, I did not experience depression. I am not dismissing the fact that some people do find relief, though. I found a better solution with omega 3. There are studies that actually show that it is a depression remedy.

I agree- there is a small group of people who are helped by the meds- it just isn't as broad as we have been taught. I do not mean in any way to diminish that.

Personally- I use omegas and D for help with the issues I face, along with exercise and a careful diet. The crushing feeling of the elephant on my chest- I have not had that in a long, long time. It's wonderful.

There is wide spread controversy about how they work, if they work, who they work for, etc.

There are many camps.

We could move this part of the discussion to Other Topics perhaps?

Unfortunately, many of those camps have a financial interest in the sales of anti-depressants. Guess which side they are on?

Just wanted to chime in here. My family has a long history of problems with depression, even suicide. My experience has been that without ADs, I am nearly non-functional. With them, I can function and once in a while even feel happy. I've tried going off them and ended up very bad again. Similar things have occurred with family members.

My theory is that severe clinical depression often has a genetic component and ADs can help many of these ppl. For less severe depression, and for situational depression (though it may feel very severe for a time), possibly ADs have little if any effect. Herbal therapies (i.e. St. Johns Wort), diet and exercise etc may be enough here. I am obviously simplifying a very complicated subject, but that is what I have found. I also happen to be a helping professional and have observed similar responses in patients.

Don't really post much, but I had to agree with you here. I suffer from panic attacks and was prescribed ADs years ago, and all they did was make me have dreams about killing my dog. Yikes!

I've found using supplements, such as B12, fatty acids, and coconut oil (all brain boosting/building acids and vitamins) do WONDERS for my panic attacks. I recently got married and I got a little depressed before the wedding due to stress and an increase in panic attacks. Continued use of the the coconut oil really seems to help.

Whatever works for you, make sure you are eating right and getting plenty of rest during this stressful time, StarFish! Good luck to you!

Ok, I know this is not what I was supposed to be doing today... My sister wanted to know what she owed for her portion of the phone bill, so I was looking it up for her and got the info. Curiosity got the best of me and I checked WH's calls, etc. and noticed that he had a 40 minute conversation with a local woman. I found her address online, but haven't been able to find out anything else about her. Please don't scold me... I couldn't help it and now I'm wondering who this woman is...???

You're in a very dangerous part of your Plan B. Youre tempted to check stuff, but if you give in, that's never where it ends. If you see something then it makes you want to investigate further!

But since you have seen this and it is quite naturally making you crazy, you did right in coming here to vent/discuss it rather than breaking your plan.

So lets discuss:

Is it a house phone number? Could she be a business contact such as a lawyer or accountant? Usually professionals like that can be googled.

It is a home number and she lives in a condo. This is all I know. I have her full name, but don't believe she is an attorney or accountant because I already checked Google for all of that.

OK Starfish. Look at it this way.

Nothing has really changed. You knew when he failed the poly that he has secrets and that you wouldnt know what those secrets were until he agreed to be truthful.

Now this woman could be his mother's friend who he is helping plan a party for her. He could be friends with this womans boyfriend and was calling him at her house.

Or she could be another affair. She could be part of the rock bottom he is heading towards.

You dont know. Exactly like you didnt know yesterday.

Information like this will tempt you beyond your strength to break Plan B. However strong we are the strongest of us put temptation out of reach.

Recognise the harm you have done to yourself by peeking out of your plan.

Recognise it and go darker.

It is all about YOU now. Not him. You have cut him loose now to figure his own mess out.

Has the boat sold? Maybe a person about that?

The boat was supposed to be selling this week. 40 minutes is a long time to discuss a boat...

Yes it is. But he has poor boundaries and prob chats to women far longer than he needs to. Which doesnt necessarily mean she wasnt dying to get off the phone or that he meant to seriously pursue her.

Also if she was a friend of a friend enquiring about the boat, they might have started talking about said friend.

You dont know is all Im saying.