What you mean is withdrawal sucks. Yes it truly does. Still makes me wince. Only a few weeks though.

Yes, it sucks really bad!!!

It does, true.

The one thing that I thought about was how if I were to contact my WH, I would have to go through that withdrawal all over again, and I didn't want the hurt that I had already gone through to happen again, or be for nothing. Ya know?

It's been 4 1/2 days and this is soooo hard!!! It just pisses me off how a person can be so selfish! I'm going to get out of the house for a bit... Maybe try and catch a sunset or something.

Sounds like a plan. We'll be here when you get back.

I broke Plan B last night and called WH to talk. I asked him to come over to talk to me. We spent most of the night talking, before falling asleep for a few hours.

He hadn't shown complete remorse for everything until this morning. He was crying and telling me that he could see the pain in my eyes and knew he was the cause of it all and that I didn't deserve a thing he has put me through. He told me a lot of other things too and I do believe that he is truly remorseful.

I have some thinking to do about where I want to go from here... I just wanted to share what happened last night.

And, he isn't coming back into the house and he knows that. He knows I need my space and agrees that I should do whatever it is that I need to do for myself. He said that he hopes I can forgive him someday, but he is willing to do whatever it takes to earn back my trust and prove to me that he is fully committed to the marriage. I didn't respond... Just listened.

Starfish do your requirements remain the same? Do you still insist on a poly and a full MB recovery?

What did he say to that?

My assessment is you were about to reach the most painful point of withdrawal and you flinched away from it.

You wamted to see him and hear nice things from him, no matter how true they were.

Because that would halt withdrawal. Which was about to get very painful.

Isn't that true? That your conversation, no matter how civil, was simply pain avoidance?

Your conversation had nothing to do with a logical or proven method towards recovery, did it?

\

ok, true remorse is more than talk, it is action. Did he confess the full truth? Did he agree to take the polygraph to prove he is being truthful? Otherwise, this is just more talk.

I am more sad than I can express.

I hope only the best for your marriage.

I have been thinking about things... the things I truly want. I do feel like it could be 2 or 20 women and I would feel the same. The EA with OW#1 was enough for him to betray his vows. I've also thought about all of the painful details that he revealed with OW#2, which has shocked both myself, family and friends with how candid he was with all of the details. I've thought about the other truths that came to light after the poly, which was an exchange of ILY's with OW#1 and thoughts of having sex with her again. I am leaning towards it actually being an EA with OW#1 and even if there was more, would it really matter to me at this point? Do I really want to torture myself with more details? I actually wish I could erase the details from my mind that he revealed that happened between him and OW #2.

I've been seeking all of the details, truth for so long, but now I'm not so sure that this is as important to me as I originally thought. I've also wondered if he could have failed the poly due to thoughts that he had, but I'm not sure. I'm not really sure about what I really do or do not want to know at this point. I'm not sure that it would benefit me either way. It would be painful either way and he knows he screwed up.

As far as him showing remorse... I did feel like he was truly remorseful with his words this morning. I didn't feel that before. He did cancel plans that he had with friends today to do whatever I wanted, so we took our dogs to the park for a picnic. We didn't talk about the M or anything, but it was nice just to spend time together. Actions speak louder than words and I don't believe that this is going to happen overnight and we both realize it's going to take a lot of work on both of our parts. I'm just not quite ready for him to be back full-time and I do need to take care of myself and truly figure out what it is that I want and if I feel that I can move forward... I wonder if I'll ever truly be able to trust him again. He understands that I need time and the choices are mine right now. I'm doing a lot of praying and asking God to guide me.

Truth is very important. There can be no recovery without it. Your H is still lying. It sounds as though you are ready to "settle" for something less than a recovered marriage.

I am so sorry for you and your family.

AM

Starfish it is up to you how many fine details you want, etc but I really can't believe you are willing to overlook entire affairs.

Before the pain of withdrawal began to bite, you were dead set on getting the full truth.

How will your marriage ever recover if there are possibly OW still in your life. How can you know whether there is one among your neighbours or cowrkers if you allow those secrets?

How will you change the conditions which caused his affairs, if you don't know what they are? The alcoholic still gets to keep some of his booze hidden, but you don't think he will slip again?

Everything you have asked of him is EASY. Just tell the full truth and pass a poly. EASY. Yet he still won't.

I know the pain of withdrawal is very, very hard.

But it pales in comparison to the pain of a false recovery.

Its a shame because your plans were going so well, and if you settle for Plan C and a FR now you'll never know how successful it could have been.

I can almost hear a "gotcha." Plan B, remember. If you truly go to Plan B, the pain won't last forever and your marriage isn't gone forever, either. Steel yourself again to get through to the other side of Plan B. Don't allow the truth to be buried.

starfish, I so wish I could feel happy for you, but I can't. I have nothing but fear for you because I know where you are headed. You are trying so hard to just bury this without getting the truth in the hopes that your marriage can survive without the truth. But it can't. I so wish it could. But truth has to be the first step.

You won't be able to sweep this under the rug for long. You will wonder every day what he is lying about. And your resentment and anger will grow and grow. You won't be able to sweep it all away.

Without it you will go crazy wondering. You hope you can suck it up and live without it, but you won't be able to. The reason is because trust can never be restored as long as he has secrets with the OW to which you are not privy.

And no, he is not remorseful. If he were remorseful, it would be backed up by actions, not by drama. Any halfwit wayward knows how to cry and carry on about how sorry they are. But how "remorseful" is someone who continues to lie? They are not remorseful at all.

I am sad for you today because I know this will not turn out good.

Just to show you what happens when a WS continues to lie to his spouse, check out this letter from one board member who experienced nightmares: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2311122#Post2311122

Remorse is not demonstrated by continued lying. All he has shown you is drama. Drama that is only intended to get you back while he persists in lying.

He would rather you suck it up than tell the truth.

That should scare the hell out of you.

Call the coaching center.

What could the coaching center do for me right now?

Of course I don't want a FR... In fact, I'm not even sure what I want right now. Of course I miss my WH and our marriage, but I don't really know what I truly want right now. I definitely don't want to go back to the type of marriage we had before and I don't believe either of us do, but I'm just not sure what I do want.

I'm not going to settle, but I'm also not saying that I'm fully committed to recovery myself yet. WH knows that I expect to know all of the truth about major things. Had a talk with him tonight and he said he will do what it takes and is working on doing all the things that I need for recovery by being honest with me. He understands the importance and said its going to take baby steps. I don't believe he is wanting to drag things out, but I do believe that we both have a lot of things that we need to work on ourselves before we can work on each other or our marriage. My feet are planted, but I'm not really sure who I am right now or what I truly want. I feel like I lost a big piece of myself along the way and I need to find Starfish again and figure out what she really likes and wants out of life... What I'm willing to accept and what I'm not willing to accept.

I know you all are here to support and guide me and I appreciate it! I'm just feeling a little lost tonight... trying to find myself.

Star, what you do want is the complete and verified truth by a poly to your satisfaction. Anything less is nothing more than a prelude to a false recovery that will be much more painful than what you are going through now.

Think you're going through hell now?

Think again. You can count on this!

He needs to pass a polygraph. So you know the truth.

Keep this in mind:

the agony you felt when you missed him, which caused you to break plan B and contact him

is the very agony a wayward goes through when trying not to contact their partner in adultery. Their 'lover'.

THAT is what you want him to actually do. Be strong and not contact their 'lovers'.

Think about that.

In my view, if a polygraph is needed then Plan B is the way to go. Live by yourself and practice the Basic Needs from a distance. He must prove himself to you and build up the trust. It really comes down to how long you are willing to put yourself through the roller coaster and where is your quality of life. Holding on to unrealistic hope versus reality can mean the difference between living in a state of mind that literally renders itself unhealthy and having pain but knowing you are moving forward in truth.