Star - just making sure you're not overlooking his hostile actions.

Before you slip into Plan B you may want to develop a way to communicate that his actions with regard to finances are not a way to demonstrate he's through lying to you.

Any actions other than to clearly demonstrate his remorse and amends (like self-preservation and preparation for divorce) demonstrate the exact opposite and are better than a poly at showing his true colors. That's why you're going back to Plan B - until the poly and the remorse/amends are there.

Star, have you found out how to secure some finances from him? I really believe that that was a big reason for your change of heart this weekend. The big ol' reality stick hit ya over the head real good, and you got scared. No one here blames you for that. Let's just figure out a way to help you get to a place where this doesn't affect you in that way again. Protect yourself.

Even if your WH was remorseful, I would still suggest that you know your options.

You're worth more than crumbs.

Saw this quote, and I thought of you.

�Sometimes people don�t want to hear the truth because they don�t want their illusions destroyed.�
� Friedrich Nietzsche

Thank you! I actually made a financial agreement with him yesterday as to what I can afford to pay right now. He knows I have other money in savings, because I took @ 1/2 out of our accounts and opened a new account. He mentioned that I have money and I told him that I would not deplete my savings and that I was our of work due to his actions and lying. I'm taking care of the house, dogs and myself as best as I can and that should count for something too! We made an agreement (verbal), but I know he still has money from our boat, etc. I'm not too concerned about that right now. He knows I'm in a tight spot with money right now, but I can survive!

Plan B sucks like no other! We started FR with MB concepts in MC before I found out about OW#2 and that was nothing compared to Plan B! I must be a major co-dependent/enabler!

WH's birthday is this coming Saturday. Our mutual friends were planning on taking us for a boat ride out for lunch. He asked me if I still wanted to go yesterday and said I have time to think about it... I didn't give him an answer.

Plan B is amazing. It doesn't suck at all.

Do you understand the difference between Plan B and withdrawal?

Withdrawal hurts, plan B does not.

Withdrawal grieving lasts only a few weeks and (for me anyway) the really painful bit was only two days.

I have been in Plan B almost a year and you can see from my thread I am not in pain. I am much happier than if I stayed to nag my husband into honesty. He knows how to find me should he discover honesty is important.

We would never recommend you Plan B if it was as painful as withdrawal! I am going to Plan B for life because it is so great.

Have you given up on Plan B or do you intend to return to it if he refuses the poly?

All I can say is I very much wish that posters had "ganged up" on me when I was a new poster here. I wish that people had 2x4'd me into having STBX get that poly and questioned me harder.

I only got a fraction of the help you are receiving now and made a lot of mistakes which basically resulted in 3+ years of false recovery that I would not wish on my worst enemy...

You and WH work at the same place, right (I tried to look back in the thread to see and couldn't find it).

If so......guess what?......plan B is even tougher than otherwise because you are in such close proximity, whether you could avoid him or not.

I mentioned before that being in the same town is tough stuff.

To get peace with a plan B....you must be away from trying to avoid him constantly because that in itself is jarring. Very tough stuff.

Get your plan B planned better so you have less angst and can get through withdrawal faster. So it won't suck so much.

[/quote] Thank you so much!!! Thank you for sharing with me about your situation too. It helps to hear others stories... I hope I'm able to help others too someday!!! [/quote]

Hi Starfish,
I haven't written on these boards in a few years, just came back (for no particular event, my basics are in my signature), but found your story. Took me a few days to read your entire story but it kept me coming back.

The quote above is what you wrote just over a week ago on 4/3. I wanted you to know that you are already helping others by being so strong!!!! I wanted you to know that!!

If I had been given the same advice through the years maybe my situation would be different. I wish I could be as strong as you have been. I know that I still do not have the full truth and probably never will. I started back to school this past fall and am working on a degree to hopefully be able to support myself when my kids are out of high school. I am basically in this marriage just till I finish school and my kids graduate.

I guess my main reason for writing you is I don't want you to settle like I did for years and years to come. It has taken it's toll on me emotionally and physically. I am not the person I used to be, but trying to find my way back now. Your strength that you have shown so far has been something I wish all BS's could have and know.

Just wanted to say that.
CW

Found some of his recent journal entries this morning:

4/7: Had a good and bad day. Got some things accomplished in the morning and went on a friends boat in the afternoon. Felt myself thinking a lot about life and what might be next. Went to baseball game with 2 guy friends. On the way home BW called crying some and asked me to come over. I did and we talked and I spent the night.

4/8: Woke up at the house for the first time in 3 weeks. I walked the dogs, and then left for place I'm staying with friend. BW and I agreed to take the dogs to the park for lunch. It was a wonderful Easter Sunday with her and the dogs. We came back to the house I went swimming and then we talked some more. We got the bills agreement settled at ?/month for BW's part. Still need to get the check. After I left BW went to brother's for Easter dinner.

4/9: BW and I sent some texts about our Sunday together and how we both enjoyed it. She asked me to call her at lunch, and I did. She said even though she had a nice weekend with me she still thinks I haven't told her all the truth, and she is stuck on that. She asked me to think long and hard and she needed an answer this week. I have nothing to give her, but going to write her a letter anyway.

How did you find these journal entries? Is there any way that he could think that you would find them?

No, there is no way he figured I could find them. He has been writing since the day he told me about OW#2. There was even an entry about him meeting with the attorney (per his Dad's request) and he said:


3/27: saw lawyer for advice, and gave me encouraging words that we should fix our marriage. I was happy to hear that.

I am not sure why the journal entries are significant. You already know he enjoys spending time with you and the dogs. What difference does it make that he wrote down on a piece of paper that he enjoys spending time with you and the dogs? You knew that anyway.

As for your lawyer, you need legal not marital advice from the lawyer. What qualifies the lawyer to say you should fix your marriage? And you are already trying to do that anyway, so what difference does that advice make?

Just very puzzled as to what you mean.


I would also like to know the following:

I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. I gave hiim this week per the advice of ML. I'll see what he comes back with in his letter. Could be nothing, but I told him that I need the info this week.

Hi Starfish,
I haven't written on these boards in a few years, just came back (for no particular event, my basics are in my signature), but found your story. Took me a few days to read your entire story but it kept me coming back.

The quote above is what you wrote just over a week ago on 4/3. I wanted you to know that you are already helping others by being so strong!!!! I wanted you to know that!!

If I had been given the same advice through the years maybe my situation would be different. I wish I could be as strong as you have been. I know that I still do not have the full truth and probably never will. I started back to school this past fall and am working on a degree to hopefully be able to support myself when my kids are out of high school. I am basically in this marriage just till I finish school and my kids graduate.

I guess my main reason for writing you is I don't want you to settle like I did for years and years to come. It has taken it's toll on me emotionally and physically. I am not the person I used to be, but trying to find my way back now. Your strength that you have shown so far has been something I wish all BS's could have and know.

Just wanted to say that.
CW [/quote]

Thank you CW... I appreciate your kind words and hope you are doing well!
I'm doing the best I can everyday and just trying to figure out what I want and do not want in life and my marriage. I definitely don't want a false recovery!

SF I am keeping up on your story, can read it but not post when I am away from home, and sometimes I really really want to! I want to tell you that we are all proud of you and how far you've come. I don't like to hear you say you feel ganged up on. Whoever wrote that you have been getting the same advice all along is right, it is YOU who has changed in the last couple of days and not the advice the highly gifted knowledgeable 'been there done that' group of vets is giving you. You were given a PLAN and oh how I would have LOVED to have a PLAN for the decade+ I walked around in la la land while my marriage just crumbled around me. What has changed the last couple of days is that you allowed your sadness to make you breach the plan, and because the instant gratification of being with WH having him say all the things you have been desperate to hear him say (even though they are not true) feels GOOD you have been trying to trick your mind into 're evaluating' the situation and help find proof that perhaps he really IS telling the truth. That is why you brought up the journal entries, because there is 'proof' that he is telling the truth. You are secretly trying to convince people here that maybe, just maybe, he has been right all along and you are just overreacting??? Trust your instinct. Your instinct is telling you, in loud, capital bold letters, HE IS LYING. He has much to hide from you. You are right that not every EA turns into a PA. Maybe, just maybe OW1 was an EA all these years (doubt it). BUT it is ALSO truth that he continues to lie and really tells you he is lying with the comments like "the MC might be able to pull more out of me..." he is basically saying there are more things to tell. It is ALSO truth that he failed a poly, from your own admission not 'slightly' failed but MAJORLY failed. Which means that even if OW1 was an EA and not a PA, there are MORE. More women or people or events that are MORE than what he has already told you. We here who have been privy to the 'trickle truth' method know that the trickle isn't random, it is smallest things to largest things... Is that really OK with you, to not know about the most major of events? The answer is NO, it's not. You are confused emotionally, but in your gut and in your head you know exactly what you need to do. Go back to Plan B.

You seem to have moved many people on these boards, including myself, with your story. Those of us who have wasted YEARS settling until we just couldn't take it anymore are screaming at the top of our lungs, GO BACK TO PLAN B.

Also, I know you have been invested in your story and your crisis situation. But I have been just reading over the forums for the last couple of months, reading other peoples stories, pondering. One of the things that has stood out to me the most is how IDENTICAL the stories are. Sure some posted by the betrayed, some by the wayward. Some by men and some by women. Different ages, different parts of the WORLD even. But adultry seems to have many, many similarities regardless of all of that. Like a movie script which just changes hands from actor to actor, scene to scene. It is truly uncanny. My point here is that everyone thinks their situation is different or unique in some way, the vets are probably wishing they had a dime for every time they heard that! But in my short time of reading through the forums I can tell you, THEY ARE NOT. The vets know exactly where you are headed if you do PB whether that means eventual marital recovery or just PR and moving on, and they know exactly where you are headed if you just settle for what you are trying to convince us is OK with you. They have seen the end of the movie. Please listen to their advice.

Thank you and I know you are right... Yes, I have changed. The pain was really starting to get to me and I haven't been able to grieve yet, as I know that I don't know everything. I know there are things that have been hidden from me and maybe he has buried them or can't force to bring me more pain for his selfish actions. I haven't once been angry at him telling me the truth. He did mention in MC that he thought it was a mistake to tell me about OW#2, because of what it has done to us. The MC got onto him for thinking this way and let him know that lying and withholding information is what would cause the demise of our marriage. She asked him to start over with the truth (all of it) and that is when he told in the last letter he sent me that I reported yesterday. He is withholding out of fear... Fear that I will leave him or never want him again. My IC helped me to pull his fears out with simple questions last Friday.

Unwritten has hit the nail on the head.

When you want to convince others of something, and also convince yourself, you look for evidence for that. His journal seems a bit stark. Who writes like that? Is it on paper? In his phone or computer?

If someone was really writing about their struggles and their life, then why would they write it out so clinically? Could it be he is going to use this as proof in court or something? When was the first time he wrote this journal?

Yes, he's afraid of losing you but even more importantly, he's afraid to face his despicable behavior. He's been running wild on his work related trips for years and getting away with it. He ENJOYS it and recovery means giving all of that up. And also having the world know about his disgusting secret life.

It's about you but it's also about him. In a a major way because if he really cared about you and your marriage he would do everything in his power to make this right and he's not there. Not even a fraction of the way.

That makes no sense, Starfish. You have been very clear that the truth will not make you leave. Even a child would understand you explained you would stay for the truth and only leave due to lies. NO ONE would be afraid to trust such a strong, calm and compassionate wife with the truth UNLESS THEY STILL HAVE STUFF TO HIDE.

He isnt hiding out of fear you will leave,Because you have TOLD HIM YOU WONT. He is not STUPID nor is he deaf.

He is only hiding out of fear he wont be able to cake-eat any more with the OW.