SF, haven't you read scotties thread? It ain't over till the fat lady sings. Where is your IM? Weve already played softball, now its time for hardball!

What do you want?
A guarantee?
I guarantee that if you continue to break Plan B you will suffer more.

Your wayward husband is fully capable of "saving the marriage".
Is he not?
HE is making the choice NOT TO.

Until your wayward husband decides to protect his wife and care for her (this means YOU) .... then your marriage will never be saved.

His actions are outside your locus of control.

What is within YOUR locus of control is self protection.

Now stop talking to his lying/whiney butt.

Right now, today, it is doomed. He's a liar who wouldn't consider your feelings or tell the truth with a gun to his head. He would rather die than give up his high.

He can't even imagine telling you the truth. Can't imagine a life with just you and no other needs getting met on the side. Doing without other women, going through withdrawal from that attention and risky dramatic passion, (which would be worse than your withdrawal experience, btw) makes him ache just thinking about the pain of giving it up.

That does not mean it is impossible for him to change. You provide more than half his high. You make it possible for the others to fill the rest, even though they are skanky ho's.

Without you it is - possible - that he will not get enough highs to keep his addiction going. When that happens he will go through withdrawal any way. If he's sensible he will realise it is better to go through withdrawal with you, than endure it without you.

But there's no guarantees. Some don't. They just get more girls on the pile and jump from one disastrous relationship to the next in the search of that high they've lost. Constantly running away from withdrawal.

And it won't happen (if it happens at all) in a few weeks or even months. His entire lifestyle has to stop being fun and fulfilling. It has to grate on him day after day. He has to hit rock bottom. He has to realise its not temporary and that this is the rest of his life unless he changes his entire outlook.

But none of that is important - its YOU we are worried about.

Thank you! I'm worried about ME too! My IC told me today that he is confused and for me to limit my conversations with him and keep it brief. I'm going to see her again on Friday morning so I can discuss my plan with her. She was aware of Plan B and that I broke it... My mom and sister also seem to believe that I need to just leave him alone and let him sort out his own mess.

Attagirl, SF. Your emotions are going to run the gamut. Don't be shy about posting them. The great thing about life is even when you make a mistake, you can start again. You still have plan b. Its not over because you broke nc. You see now why its better not to, eh?

Okay, while I agree that Plan C is CRAZY, I do want to state that PLan B isn't a cake walk. I don't want you, Starfish, to get the idea that you won't feel any pain during Plan B. You will. At some times, it will be one of the hardest things that you have had to do. But, the right things usually are the hardest things to do.

Does you marriage have a chance? Absolutely, IF you follow MB to a T. The path for recovery from ONE affair is a narrow narrow path. From 2(+?), you have a much narrower path. That is why it is VERY important for you to follow MB to the letter, and that you take the advice from those who have walked the path before you, and those who have walked the path you don't want to go down.

PLan B is not easy, but doing it correctly will enable you to get the life you deserve. It will help you not only survive your WH's affairs, but THRIVE.

Your WH's emails are pure fogbabble, and they show that he is no where near ready to recover. Attempting recovery with this man would be very dangerous to your emotional well-being.

Have not spoke with WH, but received the following letter:

BW,

I apologize for my part in creating an environment as well that lead to the emotional affair, and the one night affair that as pulled us apart and created this mess were both in. �I have apologized over and over again, I have done everything you have asked, and I have asked for forgiveness so that we can both move forward in rebuilding our marriage.
�
It seems that were at a cross roads. �It appears there is no way for you to get around this polygraph testing. �Remember I already did it once per your request. �Actually, I have done everything you have asked, including STD testing. �I think I have showed you that I want to continue this marriage and work on rebuilding our future. �Unfortunately for me and us you don�t believe me, and you want a passing polygraph test to prove that. �Again I have taken one already and I failed it, but I�m ok with that, and I have always been ok with that, because I know I have given you the truth. �I knew I failed it the day I went in, because I could just tell how the tester was reacting. �If I took another one and failed again, I�d be ok with that too. �If I took 20 of them and failed them all, then again I�m ok with it. �I know that I answered the tester�s questions truthfully.
�
You ask why I�m scared to lose you? �It�s because I realize no matter what I do; that risk of losing you is a real reality. �If I don�t take another polygraph test I�ll probably lose you, and if I do, and fail again, then I for surely will lose you, because I know how strongly you feel about me passing one. �I�m damned if I do, and I�m damned if don�t. �I have no faith in the polygraph testing, because I failed while telling the truth, so I�m not going to take that risk of failing again and watching us take 10 steps backwards and for sure doom any future we could possibly have. �At least if I refuse to take another one I have that slim chance that you will possibly believe that what I have told you is the truth. �Either way I�m scared as hell to lose you forever, but I have made my decision, and that is the decision I will have to live with the rest of my life.
�
No matter what happens from here I will always love you, and you will always have a piece of my heart.

WH

So telling the truth=failed poly?

He's good. Hang tough with Mr. Gaslighter and keep the bar high.
Please Explain Gaslighting Thread

Hi star

I have been quietly following your thread since the start and have never commented because everyone covered what I had to say to you so far but after reading your WH latest BS I can't help but put my comments through.

All I see is a grade A manipulator and a total wayward. On what planet can you ever in a million years begin to justify his absolute and unequivocal failure at the last poly as anything other than he is hiding more? Are you choosing to forget the facts here?? He scored so badly there is no way round it. It wasn't a marginal failure it was an EPIC failure.

Here is my hunch and it's based on intuition.

I don't agree with the vets on the fact that he has taken things further with the first OW.

I do believe he told you most of the facts of encounter with OW number 2.

I am totally convinced he has had more affairs and one of them is certainly with someone you know (a friend or relative etc) and that's based on the fact that what he is hiding is far more damaging than what he has told you so far.

To date he has manipulated and convinced others he is telling you everything and he will look like a total A$$ if he now tells you anything else.

His actions so far have NEVER matched his empty attempts at sweet talking you.

Please wake up and see he only cares about saving his own skin and take the appropriate steps to protect yourself. Here are some facts I would like to remind you of to prove my point.

1) He does not respect you enough to give you the truth

2) He does not care enough about you to give you space to heal from his confessed betrayals never mind the ones he's yet to tell you.

3) He's so on the ball when it comes to saving his own skin that right at the start of all this he was all good and ready to seek legal advice, ask for any evidence you had on him to be destroyed and make legal threats when you changed the locks yet all of a sudden he's a little vulnerable man and now needs to find himself and misses you etc. it does NOT add up, if he's so much of a mess how did he manage to get his brain in gear to legally protect his backside but yet needs therapy just to manage some truth telling never mind his nice trips to the bars during this difficult time? He can drink at home if he was that upset not do it in a social environment.

4) He expects you to trust him when he has done NOTHING to earn that trust. Can you name one spark of real effort he has shown you since D Day that you haven't had to fight tooth and nail for??

I would wholeheartedly advice you to remove yourself from the drama, go DARK plan B and while your there remember that it's better to be alone than with the ghost of the person you married because the man your holding onto right now is not the same man you married he's a distorted version and the only way you have a chance of getting your husband back is to let go and let him hit rock bottom.

You can't control him or make him do anything you can only control your actions and right now you are allowing yourself to be hurt and abused by not being in any sort of plan and trust me when I say that he WILL take advantage and he will carry on hurting and abusing you until YOU stop it.

i am going to agree, i have been low key on this but for the past few days something is rubbing me the wrong way and unfortunately i have been there and i think and thank you nb28 for voicing it maybe again but there is more. ( maybe it a dday talking- round 2 ding ding)

why after all the crap hasnt he said star you are right or lets make this work, it bc there is more.... it has to be alot more, i know, its bad, and it takes a toll, did you read my highs and lows from feb to may (i would like to know if you did??), i was taking about a ring again after 2 mos, i wanted it to be true and i thought i had it all. but no i didnt.

yes my H let his second life crumble on day one it just took 3 months for the real truth to come out, and it was bad. shame guilt fear all play a factor. but then if i thought to myself.. i think it will be ok now, i would have never gotten the whole story, and as blinded as i was i had a feeling which you know you do that there was more....


yes you can say i am a lucky girl my H had what dozens of infidels but he came clean (wow lucky me!), please he got caught and then it spiraled out of control and then i was a crazy b till i got the rest. but we are working thru it yes it hard, but following the principals. and it works!

i think your H thinks he can play you better bc he has been doing it for so long. believe me looking back i see it all now, stoopid me.....

i know that this is hard but you must plan B- really do you want a liar for the rest of your life? "get away with one or 2, star doesnt need to know the rest, i failed poly thank god she only asked about 1 and 2 i would have been up [censored] creek about 3 4 5 6."

i would give him a note that says something like:

please write every woman you have had inapproriate relationship you have had, i am now aware that there are more than 1 & 2 -

when when how and names
then take poly
then we can start to rebuild
with all that i know already, understand that i am willing to give us a chance bc i believe in this. until then i cannot do this, i have to care comfort and protect myself at this time.

then go dark as the vets have instructed.

listen i maybe calling a liar a liar but enough is enough.
he should be doing everything in his power to prove that he is NOT and he should be doing every thing to not make excuses and he is not doing that.

just my 2 Cents. also strong women are hot! get your nails done, buy an outfit make plans with girlfriends and dont answer the crap that he sends until he passes the new poly with all of the crap.


btw- sorry ab the typos i cannot type and still no spell check. and that was long for me,

TRANSLATION:

Dear Starfish,

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes. You are feeling very sleepy. Forget the past! Forget all the times I have lied to you! Forget all the times I have been cornered by my lies, given you another half truth, which again turns out to be false. Forget! Really weren't you happier just not knowing? I sure was. So just forget! I know I risk losing the best thing that ever happened to me with my persistent lies, but you know me. It's just that I would rather lose you than be honest. That lifestyle would suck. But ideally, you'll let me carry on lying so I can keep you as cake.

With all my Love (in words only, of course - not actions)

Your little liar.


Starfish I read your post before leaving the house this morning and the entire drive to work I was consumed with anger for your WH's horrible, glib, entitled, gaslighting ways. Goodness knows how you must feel.

He has fed you this line numerous times before. THIS time I am telling the truth, why can't you just believe me THIS time. Yeah I know I said that LAST time, but really, you should choose to believe everything is peachy and we'll be happy in delusion land, lalalala.

Yesterday he needed years of counselling before he could 'give you answers'. Today he claims he has already given you everything you need to know, so what's your problem? His tactic is to be vague and confusing, to contradict himself and to just exhaust you until you just give in and choose to believe him, simply to stop the mind games.

But you have another alternative for stopping the mind games. Plan B. He simply just does not believe you have it in you to make it. Or chooses to. Delusional man.

From the Never Take the Word of a Wayward thread:



Ive highlighted the common tactics waywards use, which I believe your H favours right now and has favoured in the past.

What I read in this latest letter was "take me at me as I present myself and my disproven word, or you're guilty for breaking us up, starfish."
This is what Plan B is for, to protect yourself from many things, including this manipulation. If you don't shut out what he is saying using the IM filter, you will probably go through more pain in the future. Unfortunately, he's telling you in every way possible that he's not willing to provide just compensation. He has yet to experience truly what life would be like without you. He seems to need that before he'll seriously think about compensation.

What a jack-[censored].

He thinks you're bluffing.

Star-

I have also been quietly following your story.

Not experienced like the vets here to give advice. What I want to share with you is that me and my FWW are 3 months into recovery. She had a 7mo A followed by a 9 mo FR.

Even though I have all the truth now and she is 100% committed to honesty, it is still very much a challenge day to day. Questions of honesty are always on my mind.

What I can't imagine is attempting R without sincerity and honesty. It is hard enough to start our new marriage with W that is fully onboard with MB. Honesty is our foundation.

I feel very much for your situation. I know the feelings of loss of dreams, insecurity and to be scared of the future without your spouse.

Trust me when I tell you that even if you do have FULL truth and williness to committ to Ratical Honesty in the future, it will still be a long difficult road to R.

Without truth and honesty? Well, you know the answer to that.

If you decide to give your marriage another try without having the peace of mind that he is is committed to honesty you will have doubts about every situation that comes your way for the rest of your life.

Ask yourself if that is something you are willing to accept. Please don't subject yourself to crumbs. You deserve more.

You deserve honesty. Whatever you decide you must determine what you are and are not willing to live with. You are determining your own fate.

Thinking about what you said regarding a friend that we know. The day he took OW#1 on our boat, he had texted a mutual friend (female) of ours, who is also the g/f of one of his very good friends. He texted with her most of the day, until late evening (except for the time he was on the boat). Could this possibly be the OW#3??? She also had a strange friendship with another mutual guy friend of ours, who I might add had some issues himself. When she tried to push him away as a friend, he threatened to tell her b/f that they had fooled around. This whole thing is starting to bother me now... Maybe my mind is just playing with me...

She was also unfaithful in her first marriage and told me the following:

I can imagine. This kind of stuff in a marriage is very damaging & extremely difficult 2 repair. I was careless & unfaithful in my marriage and the amount of damage that it caused 2 my family, friends & 2 my son was devastating. Its pure ugly selfishness & no one deserves 2 b on the receiving end of that. I'm fortunate where u can c that now.

Star,

Don't waste your time speculating. You have so much support and so much great advice here.

Plan B. TODAY.

No, it's reasonable to assume she could be. I had good male friends, who were also my husband's friends they've never spent a whole day texting me, even when going through terrible crises in their life.

If she has poor boundaries with men (sounds like it from your description), she's a pretty likely candidate for an OW. Or potential OW.

I know this is hard, but really, does it matter? You know he can't be trusted and that he could go out and get ten OW tomorrow if he wanted. You can't track them all down. You collected enough OW for exposure and you're done with that stage.

You're now in the stage where nothing he does/did is your business until he makes it worth your while to stick around and care about his business.

BTW the (totally natural) speculation you're doing right now...

How does that feel?

Because if he had managed to talk you into his 'just trust me, dear' plan, that feeling would be the rest of your life.

Every day spent speculating about this girl or that girl. Most of the time being right.

You deserve better.

Hi SF - I have also been lurking around, following your thread. I really hope you don't fall for your WH's lies. If I analyze this objectively, it is clear that he is lying and that there must be something big he is not telling you:
1. He fought the polygraph tooth and nail at first
2. His attitude toward the polygraph suddenly changed after a night at the bar with a buddy. I am sure the buddy convinced him he can beat the test.
3. If you reread his message he sent you on the night after the test, he is actually admitting that he thought he could beat the test:
"Lying comes natural to me for some reason. Maybe it's our job, we lie all day long. We call it telling the story, but were really lying to get what we want, the order. It's something we do so natural at work, maybe that has transferred to my life out of work, but I'm a good person who cares and loves."
4. Now he decides to just stick to the lie and hope you believe him, as there is no way he will pass a polygraph test again.

I really agree with the others that is time for a very dark plan B - without it, he won't think you are serious enough about leaving him unless you get the truth. He still thinks he will get you back by lying to you.