I know I shouldn't be taking the word of a wayward, but I think it's ok, when they are telling you they are a liar!

This is the real him, imo. That was a dark night for him, I think. In which his lies were exposed fully for the first time ever and he knew it. In the past whenever he was caught out, he just spun another tale but there was just no arguing with the accuracy of that test, and he knew it. He's gotten more creative since, but that night seemed bleak to him.

So this is where he explains WHY he lies. Because it is 'natural' and to 'get what he wants'. Seeing as what he has wanted in the past is to get women both emotionally and sexually, its not an excuse - its a warning.

I'm sorry that your WH will not just do the right thing. SOOOO frustrating. Been there, you just want to shake them and hit them over the head with a 2x4 (was that out loud?). I agree with everyone that it has to be someone you know or some other 'bigger' event than what you have already heard, the gf of a good guy friend of his might be a possibility as that would bite him in the hiney with you and his group of friends if that came out. You really know you have 2 choices here 1) trick your mind into believing him so you can carry on until the next shoe drops, then repeat, or 2) go dark Plan B. I am not educated on option 2, but I have a PhD in option 1 and can share with you exactly what a life like that will mean.

Years of wondering, what is he up to? What does this mean? Wondering about things that don't add up, wondering about things that do add up. Asking yourself what's wrong with YOU that he cannot seem to stay faithful. How do YOU compare to those other women he seems to put before you. Losing your self esteem. Crawling into a shell. Feeling sad, and lonely, and empty. Being less of a wife, mother, daughter, sister, friend to the people who really DO care for you because you are a broken person. Wallowing around in self pity, asking yourself why your life ended up this way. Getting angry and bitter and resentful, at him, at yourself. At men, at marriage, at the world. Maybe even starting your own relationships because, who cares right? What's good for the goose... Then one day waking up and instead of a couple months having passed, or a year, its been a DECADE, and you are worse off than you were when you decided to accept this. Wondering where your life could have led had you just stood your ground a decade, or two, or three before. That, is the life Option 1 will bring you to.

I would also warn you SF to steer clear of this woman. It seems to me that regardless of how her first marriage ended she did not learn a lesson. I have a friend who had a long term A on her husband, and claims that they went through some MB counseling (as did the OM and his BS) and are fully recovered. But I have come to realize through our own recovery that she is no where NEAR recovery, still has many holes in her marriage, still flirts with disaster, and IMO still just doesn't 'get' the damage that has been caused. I discussed with my H how this is a friend I would be very careful about my contact with because I think she still has a wayward mindset, and we do NOT need friends with that mindset. Nor do you, whether you and your WH stay together or not.

Get out of the drama.

Refocus your life.....on you ( hobbies,work,plans for things to do with friends, international politics, caring for your dogs,etc)

Listen to him if he ever comes to you with a passed polygraph.

Meanwhile step out of the vortex of brainswirling.

SF since you like dogs I thought I would suggest something to utilize your extra time and energy in your dark Plan B. Volunteer at an animal shelter. One of the brightest things in my life during some of the darkest days has been my work with animals. They don't lie to you! Or ask questions, give advice, judge, criticize, make demands (ok some of them can be demanding)... It is a very pure and simple relationship, brings great fulfillment to you and seems to put life in perspective somehow. Not for everyone, but I know you treasure your own pooches so thought it might be for you.

What a great idea. I did some volunteering with kids and gave me ideas on new careers etc.

Not sure how I'll ever be able to get through this...

Get yourself into Plan B. After the initial pain of withdrawal, you will see how much better you will feel. You will begin to feel better and better.

Use the MB plans. They will help guide you when you feel hopeless, and lost. Although there are times when I have some residual pain, it is NOTHING compared to what I would have felt had I not done MB.

I have NO doubt that you can do this. Don't let fear make your decisions.

Hold your head high and dont let him treat you like a fool. You are a very intellectual woman. This I can tell from you posts. .... Did you hear?You are a smart woman sf!! If he were ready to recover this marriage he would be willing to do whatever it takes. Plan b and show him how smart you are.

WH's birthday today. He asked me to go boating with him and friends for lunch... No thanks, I'm heading to the beach with my girlfriends!

Starfish. What plan do you consider yourself to be in? It is going to start to look like you are playing games if you go in and out of Plan B.

He will turn this around and use it to make YOU look like the bad guy.

You need a PLAN. (((hugs)))

I'm in Plan FU WH!

Enjoy the beach, starfish. But don't forget you still need to have a plan. Knowing where you're going and how you're going to get there is empowering.

I asked him a couple questions last night about pre-marriage inappropriate behavior with any women. He said it was too long ago, he can't remember, but highly doubts it!

Starfish, what you hope to acheive with this Plan?

Because if it is marital or personal recovery, I don't see that Plan FU will accomplish that.

Although all of us here have felt the temptation to enter it for the short term satisfaction...

Like pokerface says, your WH will turn this around on you. In his fogged out brain, you choosing not to spend his birthday with him will mean that you don't love him and reinforce his entitlement to do as he pleases.

IMO your Plan FU is stemming from not being in Plan A OR Plan B. Plan C has worn you down. Plan C often turns into Plan FU. Continued contact with an unrepentant wayward impacts deeply on women... thats why Dr Harley suggests a short Plan A followed by Plan B. Starfish, get back to the plans, get into a dark Plan B. For your own sake.

Star, I remember the names, faces, approximate durations of relationships with every single woman I have ever been with in my life. Sounds like you have someone is so accustomed to lying that the truth would actually be painful.

He sounds like a borderline sociopath, but at the very least a compulsive liar.

You need to get back into Plan B and stat! You are not doing yourself any good whatsoever with these types of back and forth with him. It's just gonna wear you down even more than you already are. You don't need this hon!

Not sure if you have read and listened to this link yet...

Dr Harley discusses Plan C