NLC, can you file a RO and get him moved out so you can the kids can go home? It would be much easier if he went to his parents and you went home to the kids.

I'm better off here. I have help and comfort. I'm very content in small spaces. Dr Harley says I'm safer her w sil.

gotcha...

NLC, how are you doing? Can you post an update?

I'm thinking about you and praying for you, NLC!

(((((NLC)))))

Markos, I emailed Prisca with a question for you two.

An update? Well, dh and I had a conference call with Newton Hightower of Angerbusters tonight. I think it was productive.

We're thinking of starting chit-chat next week. I'm not ready for it this week and dh is supposed to be practicing not being angry for 90 days along with a couple other things. We're not sure we're going with AB. I suggested MB as an alternative. We'll see where that goes.

So my questions. DH feels that I have been allowed to continue my life as it was but I have fewer responsibilities now since I'm not caring for the house. He would like for me to come take care of the house (laundry, pool, dishes I guess) because he still has his job and now he has all this other work.

Did you catch the part where our 2 dcs and I are living with BIL and SIL and their 6 dcs (one has Downs, one has diabetes, one's "quirky" - likely has Aspergers, and one's one of THE MOST distractible kids on earth) in a 1300sf house? I am helping them TONS, with the dcs, with laundry, with little handyman jobs. And I'm looking into working a part-time job in the EARLY mornings (not going to tell him about a job though).

He thinks he's being very accommodating by letting me come and go from our community property and not kicking my rent paying grandmother out (she's paid through the end of the month and has as much right to be there as either of us).

He's still got a ton of his ego going here and I don't have much desire to do the laundry for him or anything else. If he divorced me it would cost him a ton in CS and possible spousal maintenance because of his history of abuse and the fact that I worked to help him through law school. I don't think he has any idea about that though. Seems like a lawyer shoulda looked that up before acting like he's being accommodating and "allowing" me to enter our home. He still seems to think I am in his debt somehow.

I don't think I am. AT ALL.

So we've got a way to go...

\
NLC, what in the world are you doing? MB does not resolve these anger problems so I have no idea why you would substitute MB for AB. MB is not an alternative to anger management. I am very confused about what you are doing. You told us you were in Plan B, which would be the right thing to do, but you refuse to actually go into Plan B. Plan B is supposed to be observed until and unless your husband makes radical changes in his behavior. He has done nothing. Nothing. And has no intention of doing anything according to the above paragraph.

Your husband knows he does not have to do anything or make any changes to keep you in his life. Why should he make any changes at all? You have not only negated ANY AND ALL leverage you had, but you have put yourself back in harms way for absolutely no legitimate reason.

What was your understanding of Plan B? In Plan B, you would not have any contact with him until and unless he completes a program of anger management and demonstrates radical changes for at least a year. You say above he doesn't even have any intention of going through anger management?? What in the world are you doing? MB does not resolve these anger problems so I have no idea why you would substitute MB for AB.

Your husband needs extensive, professional anger management counseling. MARRIAGE BUILDERS DOES NOT PROVIDE THAT. He needs to go through anger management - ALONE - and make radical changes before you start working on your marriage. And until he makes those changes, he is not safe to be around. Hence, the Plan B.

Plan B means a completely DARK separation with no contact at all. You have broken Plan B every single day.

Isn't that called Plan C?
Please listen to these radio clips.
Radio Segment on Plan A and B Start at 5:30 into the clip

Radio Segment on Plan C

OK! I thought that was what was supposed to happen (NC and all), but AB said he wanted a conference call with both of us. I told dh I wouldn't talk to him in a conference call unless it was a professional anger management therapist's idea.

Markos, is this standard for AB? To want to talk to both of us? I don't want to talk to dh yet. I still feel it when he's frustrated. AB did set him straight on some things.

I am trying to get Plan B straight. I thought pool care was financial. That's why I went there. I thought finding a car was financial. That's why I went there. But I didn't help with the car AT ALL, except to email the proof of insurance PDF to his dad.

I haven't seen dh at all. I did the conference call because it was to pro's idea. Dh absolutely intends to complete anger management, and it will likely be court ordered anyway, but he's not sure AB is the program for him.

Should I be enrolled in MB right now? How could it help me if I'm in NC with dh? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm honestly asking if I should start w/o dh since we're not supposed to be talking.

I don't mean to be screwing this up. I appreciate your help.

NLC, your husband needs to go through the anger management class ALONE. Explain to the therapist that you are in no contact with him.

Your H either goes through the AM class or you have nothing to do with him FOREVER because he is not safe. This is not a negotiable condition if he wants to stay married.

Have you set conditions for contact? For example, have you told him there will be no contact until he completes the AB program and is anger free for at least a YEAR? Have you made your conditions CLEAR? What does your Plan B letter SAY?

Marriage Builders can be of no help until and unless he resolves his anger problem. But it sounds like he is not even willing to go through the course so there is nothing to work with here.

Cut off ALL CONTACT with him, ALL. If you have not given him your conditions for reconciliation [have you?] then write him a letter that is sent by your IM saying not to contact you until he has completed the Anger Busters program and successfully managed his anger for a YEAR. In the meantime, only PERTINENT information about finances and child visitation should be sent through your IM.

The pool, his car, all of that is his problem. If your son wants to go swimming, he can ask his dad to take him swimming in the home pool. But YOU should take him to that house as long as you are in Plan B. He is a big boy and needs to manage his life as if he were divorced.

Well, in my PBL I said that all communication would go through IM until an anger management professional says we can communicate in a healthy way. I didn't attach a time frame to it because I don't know how long it'll take or if it'll take.

I talked to AB for a minute yesterday. I was at the edge of my phone reception. I need to email AB, but couldn't make out his email address. Markos, can you send me that. AB says dh can work on things w/o me. That's fine.

I will need to send an update to explicitly set up communication guidelines etc to avoid confusion. Input on that is welcome.

G2G

NLC, It is your husband who needs to manage his own issues. All you should do is tell him he needs to go through the course and successfully manage his anger for at least a YEAR before you can reconcile. You can have him tell his anger coach to keep you updated on his progress during the year.

Dr Harley has been through many of these situations and he says it takes AT LEAST a year to change one's behavior.

Did your H even make a decision to go through AB?

He has an appointment w/ AB for next week. He's still deciding if AB is the one for him.

NLC, I would make that YOUR condition. That he complete the AB class and demonstrate changed behavior for a year. Make this YOUR condition and don't leave the deciding upto him. He does not have the good judgement to make an appropriate decision.

Please listen to these radio clips where Dr. Harley tells a wife that she need to be seperated from her abusive husband for at least a year while he is getting help.
Radio Clip #1
Radio clip #2

Hiya NLC,

You are getting great advice here about Plan B, and the links have been posted. Most Plan B'ers seem to be over in the SAA forum, like me. Although the reasons for our Plan B's may be different, the plan is still the same. It might be useful for you to have a look at Scotland or Indiegirl's threads over there to see just how dark a Plan B can be.

Plan B is for personal recovery. IF marital recovery comes up and you're interested and feel H has met your conditions, well great. But if not, this is about you healing yourself.

What nice things are you doing for yourself?

So I understand this correctly, y'all are saying I shouldn't even talk to him until he's free of anger for a year, right? I mentioned that to a couple of people and they didn't get it at all.

Also, dh wants a phone call to discuss what the bills are and what to do about $. I am thinking I will just ignore the request. He's a genius, I mean seriously, a genius. He can look at the bank statement and figure this out. It's not that hard. I just told IM no phone calls at all until dh has completed AB.

He asked for a answer to the "take care of the house" question. I had told him I'd give him an answer on Thursday and I didn't. He got his dad to email me that he wanted an answer. I'm about to set his dad's emails to bounce... I forwarded it to IM and said "the answer is no." DH asked why. I told IM that dh was baiting me to argue and I won't answer.

My PBL says he needs to give up porn and anger for us to be together. He had said "ok" to both but he was looking at porn this afternoon. I'm not sure what to do about that. I've outed him to his parents. I haven't told them about the keylogger I put on there because they weren't supportive of the idea. I could also see that he was trying to hack into my favorite message board. Blech.

Dr. Harley recommends at least a year seperation where there is physical abuse involved. The spouse should not go back until there is drastic improvement.

He is testing your boundaries with trying to contact you and have FIL contact you.

Good job by having your IM respond.