I posted this in SA, but it seems appropriate for here as well:

Has anyone ever had a WXW seek constant approval from the BXH?

Here's what happened:

Kids came to my home after spring break. They didn't have their backpacks. DD9 started to worry, in an overly exaggerated child manner, that she would get in trouble for not having her stuff for school.

So she grabbed my phone without me knowing and started trying to call the WXW. She called her several times, left messages, and texted.

I found out she was doing this, sent a message to WXW about what DD9 had done, and simply asked if she would be stopping by with the kids' stuff.

WXW texts back that she is coming and wanted to talk to me.

DS7 is on new meds, so I figured it could be about that, but I prepared for the worst.

She showed up, gave the kids their stuff, and then asked to talk to me. I go onto the porch, kids go inside, and she basically says the following, which she wrote in an email, but it is a basic repeat of what she said on the porch:

"Regarding coming by your house last night, I think a lot of what I was trying to say got confused. I�ve been meaning to discuss with you about it and hadn�t had the chance until last night. I feel like quite often that if things don�t work out somehow (like meeting up the day of the race or a few other incidents in the past) that you get upset with me, call me rude, or say things like I don�t think of others and only myself.

It seems like a lot of the time you view my actions as intentional or not considering anyone else and it frustrates me. Like on the race day, we had gone into the mall that day before hearing anything from you about heading back or toward my home. Any text you sent after the race wasn�t seen since I had no signal in the stores. Yes, you had sent a message saying you were heading my way, but u never received anything back confirming I was there or even got your message. (I had even mentioned to you previously that we�d probably be out that day since nothing was definite on time.) When we got out of the stores, I received all of your texts and responded immediately. I also got everything together and headed back to meet you as quickly as possible. It was the best I could do on time. You then made comments about it regarding it being rude and expected, like I had done something wrong when it was simply a matter of miscommunication.

I also really get upset when anytime I try to talk to you about these issues regarding having the kids on your time, you immediately start making comments that suggest I consider it a favor I�m doing for you, that the kids are somehow a burden to have more time, that I don�t want them the extra time, etc�.anything along those lines where you start saying that I should consider it a privilege to have the extra time or that not to worry, you won�t ask me anymore. You immediately jump to saying these things the moment I try to discuss these issues with you and it�s not fair�and I�m sure even you know, VERY far from the truth and the point I was trying to make last night. I wasn�t complaining about having them or comparing how much you ask me to watch them versus how much I ask you�that was totally not the point. My point was that I do try to make the effort to be helpful as much as possible concerning the kids, whether it�s watching them for you, taking them to karate, picking them up from your house to take them to practice, whatever is needed. I do this because it�s for the kids and because I enjoy having them around, but regardless, it�s still nice to hear a �thank you� sometimes because it does have the side benefit of helping you too when I bring things by so you don�t have to drive over or when I take them to things. It is just something nice to hear when you are helping someone out (which I do feel like I try to do). It�s not to thank me for having the kids with me, I don�t need thanks for that. It�s just saying thank you for helping you out as well (so you don�t need to drive, you can handle something you need to do without the kids, etc), that�s all. I hear a lot of the negative comments from you at these times when it doesn�t work out exactly as expected, but never anything positive. I was trying to tell you last night that I don�t want it to keep being that way and there really isn�t a need for it to be that way with these times in the first place."

So that captures the basic ramble. I didn't say much after she got done rambling. I explained the situation with DD9 using the phone without my knowledge and that I wasn't mad about anything or upset at her for not responding sooner. I then asked about DS7's meds.

I then got the above email at work.

I debated whether or not to answer. Seems pointless to try and educate a WXW and it also seems weird that she is seeking any approval from me. I could care less what she thinks of me or if she thinks I am good/bad/rude. I really don't care.

So after much debate and discussion with my DW, I sent the following:

Please understand there is no emotion in this response. The horse is dead and you can continue to beat it if you wish, I really don�t care.

Regarding karate on Fridays: I do that because it is best for the kids and it is in the spirit of our order, which states that you are to bring the kids to me by 7PM on Fridays if I request it. It�s become a pattern to meet at karate and it seems to be the easiest transition for the kids to make at a mutually agreed to location. I�ve never seen Friday arrangements as �helping me out.�

If I could, I�d pick them up from daycare and not see you at all, but that isn�t an option anymore since you changed things without informing me.

All calculations I make are based entirely on what is best for the kids and you�re not a part of the calculation. Having DD9 stay with you on Friday let her sleep a little more than at my house and permitted me to take the boys to swimming. Once that all added up in my head, the decision was made and I simply asked if you�d be willing to do it. If not, then I would have taken her the next morning as necessary.

Requesting that you watch them on the night before my race was done for them, not for me. I wanted them to attend their swimming class and not have to miss it for an event for me.

I figured you�d appreciate the extra time and the kids would get to sleep and go to their class. I could have just as easily had the neighbors watch them, but they�d miss their class in that scenario. I never viewed it as a favor.

Tardiness on your end or absence of consideration is expected whenever I interact with you. If you give me a time when you say you�ll be at something, I add about 20 minutes to it and am no longer upset or surprised when it happens. It�s simply a given. I�ll read a book or surf the web while I wait.

I use to get upset about it, now I just tell people to expect it. The Monday you picked the kids up from my place is a good example. I told Sister that you said that you�d be by between 7:30-7:45. As a responsible person, I instructed her to have them ready for that time, but to expect you to arrive after 8 since that seems to be the norm.

Happened as predicted. If Sister hadn�t been there I�d have been incredibly late for work, which I�m sure never crossed your mind.

I predicted to my sister and to DW that you would run out of the Christmas play as quickly as you could and the concept that I might want to say something to DD9 wouldn�t cross your mind. Happened as predicted. I expected it and it still hurt to not be able to see DD9, but it happened as I said it would. There was no surprise.

Your response, as with every single instance, is to make excuses, say that I should be understanding, and explain that none of it was done on purpose.

I�ve come to understand over the years that you truly are oblivious to your complete lack of ability to feel any sort of empathy or consideration for others. It�s simply who you are. The little girl that got every single wish granted and had everyone around her cater to her needs never grew out of that.

It is your world and we all simply live in it. It�s how you see the world and how you treat everyone around you.

I guess I�m incapable of saying �thank you� anymore than you�re capable of saying �I�m sorry.�



She sent another rant after this message, but I think I'm just going to stay quiet. I'm a little baffled that she is seeking thanks from me or any kind of approval. It really confuses her that I'm all business with her and am not remotely warm when around her at kid events.

Is this just the norm?

Just for the record, Plan B isn't in the picture. I have no desire to protect any feelings, they're long dead. I interact by the court ordered minimum and outside of the doctor and kid events, I really don't communicate with her in any way. 90% of communications are logistics related. "I'll be at x spot at such and such time."

The other 10% are medically related: "How has DS7 done on the meds at school this week? Do we need to see pediatrician about them again? Have you noticed x kind of behavior?"

That's about it. All business. Why she wants to go beyond that is weird to me.

On a different and very positive note:

My DW and I just had confirmation that we're expecting. The baby is my fourth, her first. Any suggestions from others that have been or are in the same situation (kids from my previous marriage/new child in new marriage).

For those that don't know, I'm the BH in the former marriage. I met DW years after my D.

Also you've probably read all these?

Blended Families #1

I also found these radio clips on blended families wonderful.
Radio Clip on blended families #1
Blended Familes #2
Segment #3

Here's the last one.
Segment #4

Congratulations on your new baby!

FWIW, I'm not sure it's good for you to assume she's seeking your approval. It seems like she's trying to communicate and you are like two ships passing in the night. Remember, labeling someone else's thoughts/intentions is a love buster.

Also, I have an ex who was also wayward, and married his AP. And if I told him at any time that I really didn't take him/his needs into account, I'd just be asking for the same behavior on his part (like changing the daycare without telling me). While it hasn't always been easy, and especially we have difficulties anytime money has to be discussed, we actually do try to work with one another's schedules/plans. It just makes life easier, and less conflict between parents is better for kids. Especially if you end up having fights in front of the kids. My divorced parents did that and it was awful. I'm proud of the fact that my kids don't have to experience it. Maybe if you try to look at things from the "I'm the adult and taking the higher ground because it's best for the kids" then it will be easier to not have so much conflict. Just my two cents. I know it's not easy, I've been there many times.

For instance, this summer we'd agreed on a schedule for when the kids would go to him. Then the summer camp I want to send the kids to is full during my weeks, so I had to call and ask if we could split up his 6 weeks so they could go to camp. He agreed without any argument, even though it will be more expensive for him (traveling twice to drop off/pick up) and is not what he wanted. But I've respected his schedule in the past, even when it involved respecting his pregnant AP's schedule (and he left me for her while I was pregnant with number 2, and totally disrupted my pregnancy!!). It wasn't because I wanted to, but because I knew I was being the bigger person, and it didn't interfere with my plans to be respectful to his. And it has CERTAINLY paid off in our relationship long term.

Congratulations! Awesome news. I wish dh and I could have had a baby together but not possible. I am especially happy for your wife.

Hey HTLD!
Sorry that I really don't know your situation, but I have read a lot of your posts from the boards (like Limbo). If I remember right, you got dragged around pretty heavy by your now ex, to the extent that it is a testament to humanity that you can even occupy the same zip code as her without deep psycological ramifications.

However, I have ONE observation:
this:
"Please understand there is no emotion in this response. The horse is dead and you can continue to beat it if you wish, I really don�t care"
belies many of the statements which follow.
I DO see emotion. If you re-read, you may or may not agree. But if I see it, I could bet that exww sees it. And I would expect that is just what she's looking for, if I've learned anything from these boards about waywards.

Just my thoughts.


Hey, good luck with the new family!

opt

This isn't what is best for the kids ... JV ... you are going through your second divorce ... how has sweeping everything under the rug worked for you?

It is highly recommended to go into Parallel parenting and limiting all or as much contact with the wayward as possible. Waywards are as addicted and HIGH as crack addicts and alcoholics. If your ex-husband stood there smoking his joint, would your advice be the same?

Help's exWW is an extremely drugged out non-repentant adulterous addict and her brain is working like the crack addict in the crack house.

For anyone who has an ex-wayward who is still actively wayward (i.e. actively addicted) co-parenting or "just do it for the kids" is by far the worst thing that can be done for the kids. It confuses them because they do not understand how a wayward's brain is identical to a crack addicts brain. They don't realize adultery is as damaging.

Dr. Harley recommends parallel parenting for any dangerous wayward ... when isn't a wayward dangerous?

Been parallel parenting.

There are occasional attempts to engage on her end, but I tend to just walk away.

optimism, you are correct in your summary of the heck I went through. It was pretty bad.

That's why I'm somewhat intrigued academically by the weird desire on her part to get approval from me. It is puzzling and bizarre.

Do people really run around through life with absolutely no conscience over their actions? It's just crazy.

PI, oh, I definitely wish I'd had marriage builders when my WxH was first having his affair! I certainly would have had a different outcome...I never exposed to the people who would have mattered the most. But other than that, I haven't swept anything under the rug, my children know what happened with their dad and who their stepmom really is. They know that she broke up their parents' marriage, and that their father married his adultery partner. Ultimately, though, he proves himself to them through his actions, and I can't control that. I don't waste any time trying to make him happy, but if there are things he asks me that are reasonable, I work with him. Same goes for him. We actually can make things work that way, and never once have we had any dispute in front of the children. We do essentially parallel parent, in that other than sharing basic information (the kind HTLD was talking about, medical and stuff) we don't get into what happens when the kids are with each of us. But because we live far apart, we have to coordinate schedules and travel plans, and for that, it takes some cooperation.

HTLD, my hats off to you for having to deal with your WxW so often. It would definitely be a different scenario for me if I had to deal with my ex that often, as it is, we just have to interact a few times a year. The only point I was trying to make was that by conveying things in certain disrespectful ways, you invite the same behavior back, rather than setting the tone through your maturity. You'll always be the one who has the moral high ground anyway, so you can let your words go along with your actions. Just trying to be helpful sharing my own experience, if it doesn't help you, disregard

.

Is she still with the AP? Is she still WAYward? Some people are just wayward for life.

If she's NOT, maybe she's starting to see the error of her ways. She also obviously sees you recovering, starting a new family...the kids probably speak highly of you when they're with her. You are an upstanding guy, someone she was in love with once...perhaps someone she wishes she hadn't f'd over emotionally and then with a pile driver. Maybe she's having second thoughts and this is just her way of testing the water on if you'll ever forgive her.

just some thoughts. doubt if it really matters, my good sir. you have clearly moved on.

opt

No AP. She's with a BF she's been with for years. He's good to the kids. I don't know why he puts up with it all. He's 10 years younger than me, a decent looking guy, and could easily meet someone else. At his age I wanted nothing to do with someone with tons of baggage.

I truly believe she is simply so narcissistic that she is incapable, through some sort of mental disorder, incapable of feeling empathy for anyone and sees the world centered around herself. It is truly sad to see someone so absent of a conscience mainly because she's the example to my kids. I'm really hoping they see my DW as an example to emulate and they see our marriage as as an example of how things are supposed to be.