ES, you have been given very good words above and I know you have the strength to heed them, absorb, and encorporate the advice. You have a lot of passion for your daughter and yourself, or you wouldn't be here. That emotion is a very powerful tool in finding the motivation to develop new habits....and eventually new character.

I have little to add, in fact. however I have to point out a couple of things.
We are NOT using your definition, or mine, or anyone else's, except Dr. Harley's. It's his site. It's his philosophy. That's what were here to discuss and learn more about and try to help each other adopt, because we believe that it leads to a healthier existance. Hint: a romantic relationship involves 2 people consistently, exclusively, and sincerely meeting each other's emotional needs -- most importantly the 4 intimate emotional needs.

-as for definitions, the above is essentially disrespectful judgment. Maybe he's not a good communicator, many men aren't [the secret is that deep down we all want to be understood...]. It's up to you to work with him on this, if he gives you the opportunity. This will take time and is, in my view, off in the distance. Yes, I see that it's frustrating. I hear you. But he really doesn't owe you anything, Mary. You have to keep it all in perspective. You have no right anymore to have expectations (per MB we really never do...). You CAN however become someone who he strives to be close to and WANTS to communicate with. And I believe you are well on your way to becoming that person. You stay the course and I'll keep praying. Deal?

opt

Hi Optimism.

So....*sigh* I LB'd last night. I'll tell you all about it in a second.

I agree and you are right that it is his definition we should be using-let's use his definition instead of mine concerning "Romance". Since there is only one doing the work, and none of my needs are being met, only me striving to meet his, and encourage some mutual effort (with no success) if isn't a romantic relationship.

I agree also, that I have no rights, and per MB, I never did, even as a wife.

Now, the LB's I succumbed to last night. I freaked out in a panic, a full-on panic after reading a comment on here about someone strongly believing xH may be involed with someone. Panic--called him again and again. Yup. I did. I did the worst thing I could do in a panic. Freak out and call. Well, of course he didn't answer. I SHOULD have been praying--well, I was--but, I should have really been focused on trusting God, not calling in Panic Mode. Now, I don't know exactly why that comment caused me to freak, but what really matters is that I did not handle it like I should have. Thinking I took nine steps backward for all the steps forward this past year with xH. I was doing phenominally, but, you know, noone ever remembers the awesome progress, only the failures.

He is seeing someone because he is human, because you are thousands of miles away, because he has a life without you.

Your statement above makes you dangerous. You do not have the tools to make him feel safe, be safe, or the capacity to love him at this time.

I highly encourage you to look at yourself, the path you walk, and correct the mistakes you currently are making.

Standing on your own two feet and growing through your mistakes should be your #1 priority. Making decisions on emotion is a wayward mentality and will lead you down a very dangerous path.

Read this forum ... read about recovering wayward wives ... understand how to make a man feel safe in a relationship ... understand how to use logic not emotions when making key decisions about your life ... finally live your values.

I believe once you start to align your values with yourself ... the inner peace you seek will automatically follow.

Thank you Pray'--I agree. I need to take a serious look at myself right now, 'cause what I did last night was a huge sign something inside me went amiss...

I will correct the mistakes I'm making. First, xH called me back today. We just got off the phone right now--spent a half-hour talking until the dog yacked up something nasty, and he had to go and clean it up. When he called, I apologized for my behavior. Told him he owed me nothing (I agree on that!. I told him my behavior was inexcusable, and also explained what my reasoning (?) was when I was doing it. He reminded me that it's like quitting smoking--messing up with a cigarette is not a complete failure, it means you try again. I'm going to try again.

He told me hw would tell me if he was dating someone. Although I don't ever want to hear those words from his mouth--ever, and it would tear me up and kill me to hear them, I am glad and believe him when he say he'd tell me--JUST because he would be HONEST.

I wondered if I really trust xH...maybe not--I too am hurting profusely. BUT, I do think that I believe him a LOT, and it seems to come naturally when it is just him and me involved--no other family members of his or anyone else.

I have to go to class.

Read through the material, and you will learn what this is;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html

You have a raging taker, and it has shown in all of your recent posts... which have become a pity party espousing bitterness towards anyone but yourself.

Yes, you are facing all of the consequences off your choices... but it is up to YOU to make the changes to amend for that. You can't blame anyone for your choices but YOU.

If you want a fighting chance, you need to quit with the pity parties, quit lashing out, and STUDY THE MATERIAL.

No matter the outcome with your XBH, you will be a better person for learning it.

Hold'--I read your comments aloud to myself, putting "I" in place of all the "you"'s.

I need to quit the pity because it erodes my resolve and is ultimately hurting myself. Pity comes naturally to someone who is hurt, but, really it does nothing but hurt more.

I need to quit lashing out for others sake, and continue to study the material for mine.

I realized with a sudden, "ooh my" moment after reading that article: "I HAVE A RAGING GIVER TOO!" It hit me! I have a raging Giver! All the things I gave up for xH hit me, and made me smile, 'cause I know:

This can be great!

The giver doesn't keep such scores... the taker does.

Your raging taker is why you are all over the "all I have done/given" obsessions.

The fact you even care speaks to your state of mind with your XBH.

The taker says "me, Me, ME!!!"

While your taker must be satisfied - which is a good thing, a taker fully in control isn't great.


It's not really like giver good/taker bad, or giver bad/taker good. But balancing so that both sides of self are satisfied.


Your taker is riled up not because you have a "raging" giver, but because it has had nothing to take.

Why?

You rolled over.

Want to satisfy your taker? Ok.

Is your plan reconciliation?

Hold':

I was encouraged when I recalled that I have, in the past, let my raging Giver take over. It's not keeping score, it was a "boom" moment when I realized that I have a raging Giver. And this can be a good thing! When you said that it's not a "Giver/good, Taker/bad" thing, that mirrored my understanding of the article, and made me smile 'cause I realized today that a raging Giver and a raging Taker could be a good thing. I almost wrote about just finding the right balance--but you were able to say the words that were in my mind, previously. Agreed!

You asked if my plan was reconciliation. I can't lie and say that I don't want reconciliation or my family together, or a marriage ressurected. But, I have had to take a look at myself and really do some self-scrutiny. I think I've thus far had the goal of reconciliation. But, I think after a little more intense searching myself, I think my plan needs to change--this starts with the new goal not so much focused on reconciliation, but on some heart changing. A new goal of heart-changing. So, that's my goal. As far as a plan, it starts with changing some habits, seeing myself the way God sees me (this takes "exercise" of my mind and self-view, which can be hard at first), and realizing that I need to let go, and accept that God's gonna take care of *me and my daughter, no matter what. This takes a load off--takes that sense of panic/control away from me. This is my new goal.

You've come a long way Eydis. Keep it up!

prayers.
opt

Thank you optimism. I'll be purchasing one book at a time, starting with "Surviving an Affair", and read, one after the other.

Oh, I decided to get tested for STD's. Told xH. He said, 'That's good, I'll pray for you". Am HIV negative. Waiting on other results, and so far so good.

Atta'girl! Don't forget about the radio show. Just click on "rebroadcast" over on the right. If you can catch one or 2 shows per week (maybe during study breaks), you will gain such insight just listening to Dr. Harley speak. I wish I had taken more advantage of it when I was just learning about all this. It's really quite remarkable.

[secret: I have bought the books in the "used" section of B&N and they are just fine-- shhhhhh, don't tell anyone.]

You don't have to read them all, BTW. You'll get a lot out of SAA. Then go from there.

Happy reading! It's nice to see someone making progress with the material.

~optimism

Sounds like you're making a fresh start in so many areas. Your daughter will have a Mom she can really be proud of, learn from, and model a nice life after. Be strong and good luck. Hope all's well.

opt

Thanks optimism.

My two year old baby asked me tonight "Why are you here in Texas"? She knows I am away--when I saw her on Skype this week, she said, "Mommy, you're Home-you're...you're hom--you're in TEXAS!"

Thinking of requesting that I bring my baby down to Texas for a couple of years. My family has not seen her for nearly two years and she will be raised with gentleness and tenerness, and soft soft love and affection--not quite like she is getting there right now. xH sounded a little worried on the phone when I mentioned that. I was planning to save it to bring up till we were face-to-face, but it slipped. xH wants me to get my master's in Texas--but I clearly explained to him that my baby is my priority, and when this degree is done, Dec 14th, I'm going to be with her and that my Master's degree can wait. When he said, "Well, you get the Hazelwood Act [a TX VA benefit for tuition paid to the school] to pay for your education only once, I'd take it if I were you", I said that our daughter is only going to be 2, 3, or 4 years old only once too, and that is more of a priority to me. I mentioned what his mom had told me, "This is only temporary"--what she's doing (providing things for my baby girl, etc), and I reminded xH of that. He didn't say much.

I don't know what to do.

Can a divorced and scorned FWW who is unloved send her FBH a "Extraodinary Precautions" letter even though he thinks things are fine between us (and they are, it's just killing me that we are not H and W)?

By the way, I only think his mom said "This is only temporary" to pretend-ally a First-Time Mom's fears of missing her baby's growth, life, everything, and that if it we up to xH's mom, she'd keep her FOREVER.

Sent the xH a text...then, a butt-load:

Me: "It killed me when she [our daughter] asked why I was in Texas"
________________________________
Him: "She didn't mean anything by it, she was just asking"
________________________________

Me: "Huh? I KNOW she didn't mean anything by it, and that she was just asking. She is Two Years Old. It killed me still. I wish you could understand why"
_________________________________

Me: "Here's the thing--I still want to be your wife. That hasn't changed. I don't want us to be apart anymore. It's been like that for a couple of years. I can only pray that one day you can see that [our daughter] needs us BOTH.

__________________________________
(a few minutes later):

Me: "I probably SERIOUSLY over-stepped some line by telling you my feelings about still wanting to be your wife, and if I did, I am sorry. I'm trying SO hard to trust God right now. This is some SERIOUSLY difficult stuff.
__________________________________



Well...um...if he didn't know, now he knows. That is, if my texts went through.

Goodnight. I've spent too much time here tonight/this morning.

Okay, a little out of the blue here Eydis. You are portraying a person who is inclined to change plans. Your ex (a single father) needs to see a strong, convicted, determined woman. Someone who sets their sites on something and stops at nothing to achieve it. Changing plans midstream is the old Mary, no?
Your original plan included trying to tie the nuclear family back together, to the best of your ability. That necessitates you moving to her and him asap. I would back track on the idea -- you are very emotional about all this and that is totally understandable. We're talking about your child here. But, turn the emotion to determined focus (like you've been doing -- I think you had a little falter here).

No family members mean more to your child than you and your ex. Bringing her to TX only separates her from one of her parents. The idea is to get the three of you in as close of proximity as possible, and then go from there.
KK?

opt

These are very tough life choices. Very tough. If you were together in a MB marriage, you could POJA and come up with something that works for everyone. At this point I believe your best bet is to pray on it and see where God leads you. I'm a huge advocate of education, but I don't know that it's more important than family and being with your child. Pray - perhaps there is a way.

Keep focused, ES. It's a long haul but it's worth it. Have you listened to the radio show? Have any of the books come in the mail?

Oh, I'd be careful about the texting. It's simply not an effective way of communicating with someone you are trying to develop a relationship with. Good for "good night" and "I'm thinking of you" type stuff, but there is not enough tone and inflection to try to explain anything. Even email and what we're doing now is problematic, but its the best we have. Skype gives you the advantage of facial expressions -- I think it's great that you do that with your baby, AND the ex.

opt