Hi all! Jus thought I'd drop in for a quick note. It's ben 8+ years or some such thing. I still have my bad moments (but they are moments :), not days and weeks! For you FWW's, just keep focused on realizing that your BH is making a choice against what is natural, and try to be patient with him. You BH's, realize that most of what you are thinking is blown out of proportion. It's not that it didn't happen, but more that it was an uninvested action. Probably, those things you are upset about your FWW doing, she would have done gladly with you, but you were too fearful and withdrawn to evoke those things. You can lay claim to them all. Don't live in a prison. Openly tell YOUR WIFE! Express to her what you desire. I'm sure she will respond in a positive way, at least in a few days...after she digests it all.

For you newly betrayed husbands....here's a secret (when she comes home) YOU HAVE THE POWER. I know it does not feel that way, and even while she is still a WW, you still have the power. For most of them, it's only fun as long as she is confident that she can get away with it. The instant that reality rears its ugly head, and you show the signs of moving on, watch her dangle the carrot (and believe me, we are so hungry by that point, a smile is enough to make us think we have a chance, and inspire us to 4 pages of unbelievably inspired posts in the forums!). Be firm. The sooner you set yourself some of your own personal achievement goals for recovery, and start crossing them off, watch how your perspective of the current situation changes. The best thing, and the first thing I tell BH's is that they get to choose to forgive. It's not their WW's decision, it's yours. I'm still here, forgiving each and every day ( and I don't honestly know if a day has passed that I didn't have at least a thought)... and what is my inspiration? A few things... I repeatedly ask God to reward me for my obedience and to execute His vengeance for me (as I did nothing, against all my personal desires), my children are better for it, and I still love my wife. It is different than it was, but it is still love.

I don't know if I encouraged or helped anyone in this, but I like to pop in and just let people know, you can do it, and last, at least 8+ years .

Thanks for the post. I'm glad things are going well for you. I will say, however that some waywards are stubborn as a mule (mine) and still don't return after the affair is over (at least not yet).

Thanks RookKev for the update.

Just a few questions if you don't mind. I learn from asking questions.

How close do you follow the MB plans? Does your wife allow complete transparency?

I was reading some of your old posts. Did you ever expose her affair?

Do you feel like you're like Dr. Harley says in this article? How Can Trust be restored after an affair

Do you feel completely recovered?

Do you feel you have a romantic marriage that is better than it ever was?

How do I say this...

Recovered, definitely. Life's problems are the day to day problem you long for.

Recovered like you are hoping for, I don't really believe that ever happens, because affairs happen to your friends/families/coworkers, keeping that wound from completely scarring over and becoming a gone thing. (i still have scars from when I was a child, and I have no pain of it, but I recall it and the experience) and that describes most of my days now, in relation to the A.

Now... part two. Trust = Forgiveness, they are both decisions you get to make. You choose both, and the amount you apply. I believe that if you do the proper amount of work during your separation on yourself, you will become prepared to recover completely (yourself). You completely recovered means you are now a healthy independant being.

I chose to trust early on at too high a level for most people to be comfortable. But, I forgave her before she even confessed...so, I had a firm decision in my head already. But, when my wife came back, I believe she understood I was resolved. My determination was set, she was allowed this one mistake, and only once. No repeats, no dragging it out. I can firmly state, even today, one and done. If it happens again, I will pack the bags and leave. No games.

I do think that is critical. Knowing what you will not allow. Do I trust her now? I choose to trust. Do questions arise at times, sure, it's human nature. I dismiss them as I refuse to operate in fear. Her actions (that is the part she plays in actually earning trust) state she is 100% on board. (and now advising people about such ideas of affairs nowhere near worth the temporary satisfaction they provide).

brain -- second marriage for both of you... did your first ones end in affairs? were you two the affairees?

Hi RookKev, good to see you!

One thing I have learned over the years is that a successful recovery has to be based on just compensation and the romantic love has to be re-created in the marriage. When those things take place, the good feelings in the marriage replace the bad feelings from the affair. When a couple does not do those things, resentment and bitterness about the affair tend to haunt the marriage for many years. Harley says when there is residual resentment after an affair that recovery is not complete.

Harley wrote a really good newsletter about trust that you might like:


Thread with radio clips about lingering resentment: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2594724#Post2594724

Why? Why would you forgive someone of such a grievous harm to you? Because of your investment in your family at the expense of recovering and repairing your marriage?

I would NEVER forgive someone of a horrific harm that they have committed against me when they haven't even acknowledged their harm. It would let them know that they don't have to do the work to repair the damage they have caused.

Because hearing the words come out of her mouth were not part of my process of forgiveness, with the exception that it was something I was able to give her once she confessed. Up until that point of confession, all I had was conjecture. I believe that having already explored that possibility and made up my mind prior to the confession alllowed be to respond in as loving fashion as I could, even when perhaps she was the most unlovable she could have been. I tried to respond as Christ would have, to the best of my ability. Her coming home and confessing was a statement of it being over... go, and sin no more.

Acknowledge their harm? For me, that is obvious, as it was for her. To rub her nose in it? Is that goign to rebuild anything. Does she understand the grief and sorrow I suffered? You might not think so, because I didn't 'attack' her with it. However, life has a way of bringing situations into your life that open your eyes. She has had multiple friends now that have suffered from spouses cheating on them, as well as friends that have talked to her about doing it.

I would be lying if I didn't say I didn't sit back with a bit of glee to hear her describe the anguish her friend was suffering. Or a movie where the Betrayed just offs everyone! I know that during those moments, she has full recognition of what I endured. And for what? Yes, at the hope of recovering my marriage and family.

This isn't an answer to me. What am I missing? You gave her forgiveness she never earned.

Sometimes I type faster than my brain, and maybe I am not explaining myself clearly. When my WW moved out, it was in secrecy. Unconfessed. I agreed to her moving out for 3 months, and agreed that she would return after this 'alone' time. Of course, I was devasted and realized what it meant, but up until the moment when she came home 3 months later, and confessed it to me with her own mouth, I had no proof. I didn't seek it. I didn't try and catch her. Nor recordings, no hidden cameras or GPS'... not that I didn't think about it, but I didn't do it.

However, given the state of things, and the knowledge I gained from SAA, as well as members on this site, I was quite sure of what she was up to. I had decided that my course of action would be predetermined regardless of what she told me. If she said nothing happened, then so be it, even easier...and if she confessed to the worst, so be it, I know what I want. I wanted a recovered marriage. I made up my mind that I would forgive her no matter what she said.

And yes, thank you for saying it so eloquently, I gave her forgiveness she never earned. That may be the greatest compliment I have ever received in my entire life. And honestly, if it wouldn't seem to be so prideful, I would print it out and hand it to Jesus as I enter the gates of Heaven. I would tell him that, I tried my best to be like Him, and at least once, it appears I got it right.

I'm not saying my way is perfect, or the best, or even recommended....but I am here, with my wife and my children, and our family is as healthy as I could ask for considering the past we have overcome.

Oh, dear. And I never meant it that way My belief system has taught me that forgiveness is an action of grace to those who have earned that forgiveness, and that forgiveness accorded to the unrepentant is forgiveness cheapened and wasted.
I am glad to hear that your family seems to be doing well, though

I do think I understand what you are saying.

I would say the work being done parts can restore the 'in love' feelings. The feelings of trust.

For me, trying to base forgiveness on actions will result in me never forgiving. I don't think there is any human fix for the pain that I felt.