Hi

I want to start by saying I 100% own my part in the problems that were in our marriage before my husband left. I do not take responsiblity for my WH husband emotional inadequacy to deal with our problems as adults with reswpect for one another.


Or for my WH within a week or two of leaving, put himself right in the firing line, to start what he called a new relationship but I regognise as an Affair. I do not take any responsibility for the deceit and betrayal and complete personality change my WH. I will not (at this point) concede the OW was just some poor inocent bystander who got caught in the cross fire of our seperation/ marriage problems. She was a predator and interferer as far as I am concerned. I know it was not personal (she does not know me), but I think her integrity is questionable. Inccidently my WH left for 3 weeks about 10 ago but came home, because he said he loved me so much, no affair.

My failings were I needed to grow up, I allowed my self indulgence and depressive illness to take over. I indulged in my childhood dream of horse ownership for much of our marriage. This was very expensive and was a drain on finances, I do work and always have (and my selfish side told myself I earn money too I can have my toys but at thesame time I felt very guilty for indulgence)
I so realise how wrong I was now, I should have put my marriage and relationship above everything else. I ended up over spending and getting into deep debt. I kept this secert from my WH, so in effect I was acting like a WS but with money and my horse. I eventually confessed my sin and expected my husband to leave. He did not, and stuck by me with my depressive illness. I had to take personal bankruptcy. I almost lost my job because of my depressive illness. he stuck by me.
This all happened in the last 10 years, including me getting pregnant, us agreeing to have the child, and then my WH saying he did not want to go through with it, even after I had told my family. I am very ashamed that I did not fight for the child, but agreed and went ahead with a termination. Which I now regret, I had to lie to my family that I misscarried. I realise my depressive illness is connected to this.

Just before my husband left the first time, we had a business fail and lost our home, so we had been under a lot of stress, made lots of silly mistakes together. But I always loved hime through this even though some of my actions were selfish.

It took a long time for us to rebuild our lives finacially over the last 10 years, not helped by my money issues. My husband retrained, got a university degree a good job, whilst coping with me. I was so proud of him and felt so blessed to beloved by him.

It was in November 2010 that we finally our bought own home again,with the help of my parents giving us a large sum of money. It was now that I started to grow up, started really looking at myself, realising this a proper new start, and thinking about how damaging my horse ownership was. But the emotional side made it hard fo me to just sell her, she was older by now, I knew i would not try to replace if she died etc but sadly I did not share this with my husband at the time. Money was tight, and my husband was bothered, but he also knew how much I loved my horse (even though he was resentful of how much she cost he did used to encourage me too) so did want to force me to give her up. Only I could make that decision (having the horse did help me through my depression).
Anyway between this time and the time he left in September 2011, I did notice he was down sometimes. I tried to speak to him but he said he was fine, just weather etc I was a bit confused because getting the house had been his big goal. Now we were here he did not seem that interested. I suggested counselling but he did not want to go.

Slowly I was getting more and more courage up to find a way to re home my horse that I felt would be ethical. I knew inside I needed to rehome her, I wish I had told him this.

I do want say also thatn when we were first together my husband suffered a depressive illness that I did have to deal with until after we married. But stuck by him, I realise now that he probably hasn,t recovered from it, he had a lot of anger over things that happened before I knew him. And because I was not an Angel it was easy for him to redirect it at me over the years. And when he did leave he geniunely believed that I was 100% responsible for all the problems in our marriage. He admitted this himself and says he also now realises that was not true. We both played our parts.

Just anothe bit of back ground we had not made love for 2 years This was somewhat to do with both haveing low libidos and the meds I was onat the time) accept for 3 weeks befor he left.

I wanted tell all this, so when I tell you the next bit you will know he is not deep down a bad person. And why I want to repair this marriage.

On the September 12th 2011 at approx 7.00pm my husband sat me down and told me he was no longer in live with me and would be moving out by the end of the week. I was totally stunned, had not seen it coming. We had had 2 weeks off together and had a lovely time, we were always good friends no big arguments. we had a holiday booked for the end of September on our anniversary week. So very confused.

I continue in the next post what happened, next as this was so long.

Me 46
Him 41
no children
been together 181/2 years
married 161/2 years
left me Sept 12 2011
not sure when affair actually started but discovered mid November 13th? when WH came home to try again for one day!

WH home 10 Jan 2012
NC/ Recovery?

Ellyse it's very confusing when people begin entirely new threads, because people cant see what advice has already been posted to you.

You should stick to your original thread or have the mods merge this with your other thread by clicking 'notify'.

The background info you are providing here, is pretty typical. All affairs are very alike. All waywards behave in the same ways and say the same stuff.

For now you need to concentrate on diagnosing whther contact is ongoing using snooping. We can guide you from that point onwards.

Dont dwell on your own 'failings' there is no excuse for an affair and as long as you show yourself a reasonable spouse today, there is nothing more to do about that.

Keep snooping. Youd be crazy to work on trust alone after the lies youve been told.

Hi
Thanks Indiegirl,

Ok, does anyone need to know what happened next? How it started, why he came home? to proceed.

I do believe he sincerely wants to try again, but I am concerned he sees the interaction within the affair through rose tinited specs, the attention he received from her, gifts from her, how sexual she was etc, all those Honeymoon phase things.

However he has said, even when he was with her he knew it was wrong and immoral. Felt he lost his mind, was ill, does not like the person he became. And she had certain personality traits he did not like.

The affair became very public, all his work colleagus knew, and appeared to support it. Apparently she is very popular. She also works in the same building. And she was very public with it Face book, family dinners, Christmas with her family etc. even though he was in contact with me stating he was torn between us.

He got counselling, which was one of the things that started to make him see that leaving the way he did was wrong and started something with someone at the point he did so stupid, even if we were not getting back together.

However I believe the thing that forced the issue was, I guess instinctively I did a plan B.

I gave an ultimatum

1. If he is so confused he should move out from her, go somewhere neutral, have no contact with either of us until he had sorted his own head out, but there would be a time limit, we could not all put our lives on hold for him.

2. Stay with her and accept the consquences. Divorce, selling house etc And I would be withdrawing my contact with him forever because I can't be just friends with him, it would hurt too much. (He had thought at one point we could still be best buddies, because he did'nt have that closeness with her! Perhaps we could all be friends!!)

3. Or come back and make a go of it properly. NC with her etc counselling, Honesty!

He turned up one early morning wanting option 3, all remorse saying he should have been working on us etc not having "relationship".

To ensure she knew properly I had him compose email to send her that was very final.

This made her very angry ande returned all his gifts, sent a very angry letter, not atall loving, even her family contacted him and had a go, for using there sister/daughter. Apparently she has history of relationships with unavailable men.

And a certain number of people at his work won't have anything to do with him.

So I am not sure it would be welcomed if he wanted to take up the affair again. Certainly not by her friends and family. I am not sure she would want an illicit affair, in a way poor girl, she was on course for marriage and babies and happy families all round (so she thought in her angry letter).

So I think most of my insecurity is has he emotionally let go himself?. She works in his building and if he sees her this will be triggering. Re employment is not practical, especially in the economic environment.
However there are plans to move my WH department to another town and building, within the next year. so this cannot come quick enough.

So contact is possible on a daily bases, I have asked him to tell me if there is any, and not to attend any work event where she might be, he has agreed to this.
But each time I find what appears to me to be momentoes, it destroys the trust again.

He has only been back 3 months, not sure how long WD goes on.

Elle, you have spent far too long listening to a wayward. Anything he says is about why/what he wants is completely irrelevant. Counselling is also completely wasted on a wayward.

Theyre addicts and they follow the same script. If allowed, they will keep both women forever, until the pain causes the BS to stop looking so appealing.

It is very possible he is still cake eating.

You need to find out what the true situation is today and go from there.

If you read the Never Take the Word of a Wayward
and Craziest things to come out of a Wayward's piehole, I predict you will see the same script you have heard before.

Ellyce, I would suspect that your husband's affair is still very active, which would explain why he doesn't want you to snoop on him. Waywards who object to snooping are always hiding something. As long as he works with the OW, recovery of your marriage is impossible. It is like an alcoholic going into the bar every day and having a drink. He is perpetually triggered. The only way is complete and total abstinence for life.


These are the things he needs in a marriage with you, the honeymoon phase. And this is what Marriage Builders does. We affair proof your marriage and once that is done, restore the ROMANTIC love in your marriage.

Here are the steps it will take to save your marriage:

Requirements for Recovery

Ah if he still works with her, that explains why he is still so triggered, I had missed that bit.

That needs to change ASAP.

Hi

I have some thinking to do,

Have looked at some spyware, the things that look memory sticks look good. Just got to work out how to buy one without him knowing.

Our money is joint, and I do the accounts, but that means he can't spend anything without me knowing too, so that at least is good.

Speak soon

You have some very good things working in your favor.

1) He's HOME, which puts him within your purview a great deal.

2) The OW evidently is not playing the "poor, wistful, ex-lover" role, instead choosing (with her family!) to spew venom at him for his actions.

What you have to do, while snooping on his activities, is emphasize the differences between the "loving wife" you can be, and the "screaming harpy" she has become.

He is going through withdrawal from the ENs he was getting from her. You should work to fill that void. Here are two quotes from your own words:

...bit of back ground we had not made love for 2 years

...the attention he received from her, gifts from her, how sexual she was etc, all those Honeymoon phase things...

This physical estrangement, coupled with the emotional distraction you have identified (The horse HAS to go - today would be better than tomorrow!), left your marriage with exactly what? as the core support. The best way to attend to the correct ENs for each other is to learn what they are. Download the ENQs from this site and complete them.

The negative thing about your situation is their continued proximity at work. That should end. How can he (with your help) devise walls to prevent his seeing OW. If this cannot be done, the odds are very likely the affair will re-ignite, causing him to "re-home" with her again. That being the case, he will have to change employment.

Just wanted to emphasize that it can't be done and that her husband will have to leave his employment in order to recover. [or the OW will have to leave] As long as they work together, he will be perpetually triggered, making recovery impossible.

Ellyce, what if he went to human resources, told them about his affair and asked for an immediate transfer?

Ellyce, Dr Harley explains in this radio clip why recovery is "hopeless" as long as they work together: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=652

You have to take STEP ONE in order to take STEP TWO. Step one is to never see the affair partner again.

I've been in the situation where an OW has continued her presence in the marriage, and I have read a lot of these situations here on MB, and I can't remember ever having seen an OW play the "poor, wistful ex-lover" role. If she were playing that (i.e. if she really were an EX) The WH and BW wouldn't hear from her, so they wouldn't know about it.

In my experience, EVERY OW who hangs around to tell the MM how she feels ALWAYS plays the "screaming harpy" role, "spewing venom" at him for his actions. This is actually a very effective tactic to make the MM feel bad and try to show that he is not what she says he is. And how does he do that? By being good to her...right back into bed.

She accuses him of having used her, of having been cruel and heartless and an absolute basket. And of course any of her family that knows about the affair supports her in this. They do not accept that their sister or daughter was a whore; they accept that she fell in love and was used for sex. Surprisingly enough, when the OW is married, even her husband can take this line; the OWH in my marriage rightfully hated my H so much for destroying his marriage that he cast my H in this light. He was the abuser who duped a vulnerable, trusting woman (who had had a 4-year sexual affair with her driving instructor, years earlier - but that was irrelevant, apparently). OWH told me this view of my H himself. OW's sister, who supported OW in her affair, also, after various D Days, characterised her as weak and vulnerable and basically a good person who fell in love.

The MM do not like hearing OW accuse him of using her for sex and of having no heart, so he tries to show her that he really cared about her. Under other circumstances, he would marry her in a heartbeat...but he loves his children and he just cannot leave them. I have a copy of an email sent by my H to his OW the first time he dumped her - when HER H found out about the affair, and didn't tell me about it. OW was evidently ranting and raging to my H on the phone at work for days when he wouldn't run away with her. My H actually took a day trip on the train from London to Brussels, when he was supposed to at work, and met her near her home (where she was under virtual house arrest - but she managed to get away from her H yet again) and pleaded his genuineness in person. When she continued to rant at him, he sent an email, and I, years later, got a copy of that...filled with words of love and regret that he could not leave his children, who were the only reason that he was in his marriage.

My H decided not to see OW for a couple of months after that, but when she rang to tell him the heat had died down at home, the affair was back on, and was undetected by either spouse for another 18 months.

My dear friend tully who used to post on this board had an OW who was the research student to her academic husband. When he made an attempt to dump her after D Day, OW went similarly mad with accusations of being used. He too spent hours on the phone from work, pleading with her to believe that he really did love her but couldn't leave his children. As usual, the "harpy" tactic worked to get the affair back on stream. She was a single 27 year-old and he was 44 with 4 small daughters. She worked in the same institution as him but he assured his wife that they did not meet in the normal working day. tully checked his email and found no evidence of contact. but in fact, they were meeting regularly at work and having sex in his car. (She found this out much later via a keylogger.) The end result was that when tully left him and went to Plan B, he moved in with OW and abandoned his family.

No man - who Is probably in love with his OW anyway - wants to hear that he has no conscience and does not care that his OW is suicidal, or like my H, does not care that he encouraged OW to leave her H and ruin her marriage and relationship with her kids, when he knew he was never going to leave for her. The screaming harpy role is always skilfully mixed with the "you can restore your integrity by doing the right thing and seeing me again" tactic. The only way to stop this tactic from working is to ensure that they cannot contact each other. Without MB knowledge, I couldn't find a way to do this, and My H's PA lasted for over 3 years with my enduring about 6 D Days, and his telephone-based EA lasted for a further 5 years, until he retired and gave up access to mobile phones, unmonitored internet and workplace landlines.

If your H has any possibility of contact with OW you are in for a world of pain, regardless of how nasty she turns. She knows when to play nasty and when to cry that her life is over, and he will respond. Believe it.

PS: Another member of the UK posse here!

Hi,

Thanks for all your replies.

Just to let you all know, I did re home my horse back in October 2012. I was lucky to get her into Sanctuary where she is safe for life. On a personal note this was very emotional because (at the time had lost my husband but also a big part of what made me me) However I do not regret, but I do miss that part of my life. On a personal development note I did everything imaginable to turn myself into a person I am very proud of, I did not crumble. I went into fight mode, stood up to face the problem, despite the pain.

The pain, that all of BS's can relate. I had fantastic support from Sister and brother-in-law who are very modern therapist themselves, with views very similar to MB and Dr Phil. Sadly now we are back together I cannot rely on my sister to help. Because as professional as she is, the sister part of wants to knock my WH into next year. So it is hard for her to be neutral. She does support snooping though.

Up date I have downloaded the snoop device. So far nothing to report. He is being very loving and caring, we have talked about stuff. In the present moment I feel ok about, but ofcourse I still have the underlying sadness and fear of a recurrence.

Again he is saying reassuring things, but time will I guess. I have stated quite clearly
"I love you, I want this to succeed, but there is no point if he wants to be with someone, or leave anyway. I would rather we finnished now then for me to have to endure the heart breaking pain again, in a year/ 2 years whatever. If you want to go I will not stand in your way, and alternatively if I find you are going behind my back I will end the marriage, and never have contact with you again for as long as I live"

Can't get clearer then that,can You?

His reply was,
I realise I made a wrong mistake, I left for the wrong reasons. I was an idiot for starting something with someone at that time, even if I had not come back to you, I realise it was the wrong time for anyone. A person needs to finnish properly with one relationship before moving on, as well as sorting you own head out. It was disrespectful of me full stop, I am so sorry I hurt you, and so wish I had made different decisions.
Even if she approached me (or even anyone else) Iwould not be so disrespectful to go behind your back. And I don't want that distress, or bad feeling about myself any more then hurting you again. I am here to stay and want to succeed with our marriage. I love you"
What can I say, time will tell, be vigilant.

But part of me hates having to be this way, my romantic idea of things is screwed now. I have high morals, infidelity is the worst, and lying, and snooping. So having to do some of this stuff myself eats at my soul.

Well see,
Bye for now.

Here are some things that have to be improved in his thinking:

I left for the wrong reasons...so next time he'll wait for better reasons?

I realise it was the wrong time for anyone... so I'll be more considerate in my scheduling next time?

And I don't want that distress...like you're supposed to give a tinker's damn about HIS distress?

You are, right now, his "least objectionable option", Ellyce. The only difference in his "commitment" to you now, as opposed to when he was actively cheating on you would be...well, I guess there isn't any.

If you're not able to have him get with the program, you're merely in a holding pattern for his "better option" to show up.

I agree with NG. his little speeches are very thin in the way of reassurance.

What about EPs? What ACTIONS is he taking to make you, and the people who love you, feel safe?

And 'a snooping tool' is installed? Elle honey you need ALL the snooping tools. You need to snoop like a bloodhound. Once an A has been discovered once it can go very far underground.

Is he leaving his job?

Elle, just wanted to emphasize that you are wasting your time in a false recovery as long as they work together. You cannot ever recover your marriage this way. You must first take STEP ONE in order to take STEP TWO and step one is ending all contact for life. That has not been done.


We have already seen over and over again what happens when affairees work together. The marriages never recover. You are facing an on again, off again for years. Your husband will be triggered daily when he goes to work, and will stay in a state of perpetual fog until you end up divorced.

I don't think you are grasping that this is hopeless unless he leaves the job. Hopeless.