Do NOT communicate with him again. You need time to THINK!!!! He is NOT serious, and you need to give yourself time to accept that. You are jumping at his straws, and the ones he is offering are pitifully SHORT.

He called you fifteen times beginning at 5 am. Who do you think that is about? Do you think it is because he loves you and is willing to do ANYTHING to keep you?

Here's a hint - NO.

He needs to really experience his life without you. And YOU need time to so that you can read his BS accurately.

Negotiating your marriage on the doorstep is not Plan B!

He now thinks he can try that whenever.

He would be respecting your wishes and using the IM if he were serious.

But neutral people are hard to manipulate and its easier to wear a BW down into exhaustion to get that cake back.

The fact that he showed up at your house is very telling, as TW suggested.

Also, the fact that he isn't even willing to change his number is a big red flag.

And you have noticed that he is not completely remorseful, and DrH suggests that a BW doesn't consider recovery with a WH that isn't remorseful.

Let's try to get your list of requirements up to a standard to try not to lead to a FR.

What about a poly? What about not being allowed on FB? Opposite sex friendships are off the table(for both of you). A NCL to OW.

Oh, and from now on, any of your conditions, etc, should be passed through your IM. Go dark until he is ready to meet ALL of your conditions.

I would also add that FB and all social networking sites need to go. They'll always hang over you like a cloud.

A poly is a good idea for reassurance and to break his habit of lying. He needs to know that he can't take things underground, get an affair phone, be romantic for a few months and then business as usual.

Changing his number is minimal.

Jen,

Speaking from experience....getting multiple DUI's indicates your husband has a drinking problem. Until he gets a grip on that, the alcohol will fuel the affairs and the affairs will fuel the alcohol. A condition of his returning home has to be that he gets in and stays in a 12 step program.

ITA with Brits. Do you have any suspicions that he is using anything else besides alcohol?

Update Jen? What's happening?

Are you ok Jen?

Let us know how things are.

I don't even know where to start. I told you guys he came here and that I was going to send him my list of EPs. I did that.

I thought myself very much in control of the situation. And I guess I was - at least what I would allow to happen. Can't even be in control of another person's reactions though.

I very calmly stood up for myself. I said this wasn't a negotiation. That years of lying and other women had damaged my trust in him and the only way we could reconcile was to make these changes. He agreed to everything I asked for. For about 30 seconds.

He'll change his phone number, but it can't be done until he pays the bill and he doesn't know when that will be. He'll move back in, but it's my fault he can't now because I want the phone number changed first.

All I heard was foot dragging. It was so clear, that he planned on doing these things, but not until he got one last hurrah, so to speak. So I went to OW1's house, and there was his car. I knocked, waited, knocked again, waited some more and then he finally came out - with a million lies. He was there with a friend, but the friend couldn't come out because he was high. When I said I'd seen the friend high before, all of a sudden he was also upstairs with some girl. Nothing he said mattered at that point, because minutes before I showed up there, he claimed he didn't know where she lived, hadn't talked to her in forever and was at a different friend's house earlier but was headed up north as we speak. Yeah.

I was done. I went home. He followed me. Begging, swearing to do anything to fix us. I don't know why I listened. I certainly didn't mean to. But I did. Even then, after finding him at her house, I listened.

And it was more of the same. The number change at a later date. Moving in, after the number change. And my personal favorite - giving me all the passwords, but I'd only have a week with them to feel better and then I wasn't allowed to go through his stuff anymore.

I, still surprisingly calmly, explained that this was not a negotiation. That I needed these things now and things needed to be open to me until I felt satisfied, even if it took years. That hiding things would no longer be tolerated in any form. And to talk to the IM if and when he decided he could actually do what was required of him.

As I was going inside, I was told he wanted the girl from last week (the Plan A girl), the girl that would have done anything to be a family - not this frigid b**** who is only making him jump through stupid hoops.

I'm back in Plan B. All contact points cut off. I have to figure out some way to know if he's at my door before I answer it, but otherwise, he has no way to get in contact with me. He knows to go through the IM, and that's that.

My internet was shut off and I had no way to contact the IM or the board. I thought I could handle it, and maybe I could have if this had been a real reconciliation attempt, but things got completely out of control because he was just trying to bully me into accepting the way things used to be.

I'm so hurt. For at least a short time, I really believed that it was possible to fix things now. It was short, because I've gotten a lot better at recognizing the motives behind what he says, but those few minutes were something I wanted so badly that it really hurts to have them taken away again.

This has gotten long and I'm probably leaving out key information. I just don't know anymore. Oh, but I did get my STD tests back and they were clean so at least there is that. And maybe it's just the placebo effect - since the Prozac shouldn't kick in for at least another week - but I seem to be holding it together better than I was before. Eating, sleeping, gained a pound, even throughout this mess. Very minimal crying, right after returning to Plan B. It's still going to take me a while to get past this last set back though.

Going to go try to respond to the messages I missed from my drama and being internet free.

Now:
1 - Change cell phone number and give password & account access.
2 - Change email account and give password.
3 - Eliminate all non-family women on social networking accounts and give password.
4 - End all contact with people who have negatively affected our marriage, women and male friends thatdo not have the best interests of our marriage as a priority.
5 - No more nights apart or going out without each other
6 - Give me access to any banking/financial accounts.
7 - No more opposite sex friendships, unless family members.

In the future:
1 - Protect me and my feelings above all else.
2 - Never participate in any one-on-one meetings with anyone of the opposite sex.
3 - Never discuss my personal marriage issues with anyone of the opposite sex.
4 - Never go to bars, clubs, strip joints, or any such establishment without me.
5 - Be open and honest with me at all times about the past and present.
6 - Avoid all chat rooms, porn, dating sites, craigslist, etc.
7 - Trade phones with me at any time I request, NO questions asked.
8 - Leave my phone accessible to me at night/or anytime you're home.
9 - Commit to at least 15 hours of undivided attention with me to meet each other�s needs each week.
10 - If a woman from the past finds a way to make contact, immediately end the contact and notify me about it immediately after.

I'm attempting to only ask for things that I would be willing to do myself. Facebook is the only way I stay in contact with distant family and old friends. I've already begun deleting people who don't fall into those categories. And he knows he's expected to do the same.

I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but our state requires anyone charged with a second DUI to go to AA meetings. Usually that's on top of more intensive group therapy as well.

Honestly, I don't think it'll change much. Alcohol really isn't the problem. He can go with out it. He can have one or two and stop. His issue is that he thinks he's both invincible and entitled to do whatever he pleases. In every aspect of his life - be it alcohol, other women, his job, not even having to pay tolls on toll roads. I don't see how AA will make much of a difference, but he will be going because it's that or jail time.

.[/quote]

I'm attempting to only ask for things that I would be willing to do myself. Facebook is the only way I stay in contact with distant family and old friends. I've already begun deleting people who don't fall into those categories. And he knows he's expected to do the same. [/quote]

But you are not a serial cheat with an established addiction for the attention of others.

These sites will trigger his old behaviour patterns. Like a gambling addict going to the track.

If it's too much for him to commit to - he'd rather have access to stupid websites than have his marriage - it's a clear sign to you he is not serious. You need these clear signs to either build trust on or to stay away.

You can always have a couple's facebook page with both your names on.

I think his addiction is really deep rooted and you need EPs suitable for a serial cheat and alcohol problem, such as a polygraph, A postnup promising you everything should you divorce him for adultery in the future,

I am not sure what commitment you need from him regarding he join a 12 step program towards getting sober, there are other vets who know more about that.....
[quote=JenniferIsLost][quote=indiegirl]I would also add that FB and all social networking sites need to go. They'll always hang over you like a cloud

Not at all. He's never had any interest in drugs. Well before I had our oldest, we smoked marijuana together once. That was the first and only time he's used anything since he was 18. Even when I went through an extremely unproud period when I recreationally took cocaine, he wouldn't try it.

I can't say for certain what he's done since I kicked him out, but I really can't see him taking any drugs.

I know he does take some sort of muscle building supplement. Fancies himself a soon to be famous cage fighter. I know it's legal and is bought in those nutritional shops. Something like a legal version of steroids from what I could find online, but you drink it.

I think a couple's Facebook page would be something I would be comfortable with. I use Facebook in the way it was intended (at least as far as I'm concerned) and the only reason I hesitate to make him give it up completely is because I want both of us to keep ties to family and old friends that are actually good for our marriage. A couple's page would block out any possibility of his using it for any other reason unbeknownst to me.



I'm still very uncomfortable with the thought of a poly, even though he has agreed to it if I require it. I'm barely hanging on knowing what I know, I have absolutely no desire to know any more. I really don't think my shaky mental stability could handle that, at least not in the near (while still pregnant) future.

A postnup sounds wonderful, if we had anything at all. We own nothing. We have no savings, no assets, nothing I could take, or he would fear to lose.

You need the big picture facts in order to shape up a proper recovery plan. If you know the conditions which led to each A, you can eliminate each condition. It will also flush out any remaining foxes in the hen house - you dont want to find out x months down the line, someone trusted or hidden is actually an unknown OW. A poly wont give details, it will just show you whether or not he has come clean on the big picture, and if he has come clean on everything this should reassure you there are no reminaing skeletons waiting to jump out.

Then what about having a joint Facebook?

My snooping has uncovered how the affairs started. How he met, or got in contact with, each of them. Which is why I know I need complete transparency when it comes to Facebook and the cell phone, as well as no going out to bars without me and no longer being friends with certain guys who've proven they aren't at all concerned with my marriage.

He hasn't come clean. He isn't going to come clean. He has this idea that we are going to start fresh and basically sweep everything under the rug. It's a tempting idea, but I know what I know. I don't need to know anymore, but I do need him to acknowledge the things I know as opposed to lie about them.

Which he isn't going to do. He'll lie until he dies. Blame me for the end of our marriage because I refused to listen to his "truth." And that's that. Nothing I can do or say is going to change that. And in the end, the poly will never happen because he won't go through with it, no matter what he says. Our marriage isn't worth fixing to him if he has to truly admit what he's done.

Hi JIL,

In recovery I went into my H's FB page, since I have the password of course, and deleted people that I felt were not appropriate or necessary. He was 100% on board with me doing that. Almost all women short from family went, especially women I didn't know (usually old HS or college friends). Just a suggestion. If he is committed to recovery he should not have a problem with you doing that.

That all being said my H has never been secretive about FB, he rarely even uses it, and he has to my knowledge never had any inappropriate contact using it. If any of those things were the case I would probably require him to close it down.