Ok, I am back.

This is what has gone down.

Child is his. DRAMA in MOW-land with her husband. WH wants to pay support for the child. MOW husband is all over the place. He sees the child needs taken care of and doesn't blame it ( it's a boy) but is not sure of his own emotional state over it all. So it's all in flux.

My WH has been outted. He gave me access to his accounts.

He wants to work things out, except he has some issues with me. He wants to talk and discuss and work on things. He is also telling me how badly I hurt him by getting mad at him about the affair stuff ( read outbursts, disrespect on my part) and that when I tagged him for spending our savings, he felt he was being accused to stealing and was deeply hurt, so that kind of led to his detachment from me and once he detached he felt if he could slip things by me ( affair) then he would.

So he is sorry for the affair but blames me for what led up to it. He also says that if I want a relationship with HIM, then me saying he can't talk to who he wants ( controlling him) is not the right way to go about it.

From a distant perspective, my own take is that MB philosophy totally applies in how we need to be treating each other. He is up for it and wants to work with the MB principles, at the same time he has a lot of resentment towards me for saying he was stealing ( i didnt say it but did implie he was taking more than he should)

I don't exactly understand how this all lead to what I view as an absolutely atrocious situation. You know, Ellie complains about overspending, so he has an affair and an OC....

So I HEAR him saying he feels a certain way, but I guess I am resentful because I feel like it is equal to stepping on someone's toes accidentally and then getting chopped up with an ax for it. I am seriously upset with him and even more, I feel like he is expecting me to take the blame for what he did. I just view his actions as utterly self entitled, selfish, and when I hear this thing of I hurt him so badly about the savings and then he does all of these other things... I can't even adequately express my pain and hurt. He acts like it is MY FAULT.

Current state of things is I am speechless with a lot of it and he is hurt and resentful.

We are getting stuck in discussions of the past. I don't feel they are productive because he is just blaming me for it.

I never slept with anyone else, I never lied to him, I never had an OC..

Where do we go from here. I feel so raw. I don't want to argue, but it really makes me mad for him to act like *I* messed it all up and give me that line about how if I want a relationship with HIM.. I asked him why he wants one with ME? He declined to respond to that.

This is very telling. He is blaming you for his affair.

He had the affair, and he thinks that he's doing you a favour by allowing you to have a second chance. Please.

Has he agreed to NC with OW? Has he agreed to anything else on your list of requirements for recovery?

You need to insist on high standards for him to meet. You should not be contemplating going back to normal with him for a long time.

He is dangerous to your mental health and will make your life a living hell unless he can truly change. Does he even want to???

"Where do we go from here. I feel so raw. I don't want to argue, but it really makes me mad for him to act like *I* messed it all up and give me that line about how if I want a relationship with HIM.. I asked him why he wants one with ME? He declined to respond to that."

Oh boy, this is so bad I don't even know where to start. Your husband is not even remotely serious and if you stay with him as he is now, you are signing up for a life of holy unmitigated hell. Dr Harley says that unless appears on bended knee with hat in hand after an affair that he is not serious about recovery. But I think you already realize that.

I would hand him a list of conditions which include NEVER seeing the OC or the OW along with other conditions as outlined in my Aftermath post and tell him to hit the road if he can't meet those conditions. Those conditions are NON NEGOTIABLE, by the way. The rapist has no say in the conditions for recovery for his victim.

that is how I would approach this. Otherwise there is nothing here to save. As it is now, your husband is wayward and is not serious.

Uh-huh. He's lucky he's not married to me. I left so many bruises on my formerly wayward husband that he looked like a hemophilia patient. I kicked, I scratched, I head-butted (he made the mistake of trying to hold my arms down, not a good idea at the time). More than once.

Your restraint in confining your hurt and outrage to LB's is to be applauded. Not all betrayeds can be so strong.

Your husband got off lucky, with DJs and LBs. You're a stronger woman than I.

Ellie don't LISTEN to a drunk, you give him your EPs and INSIST.

The only thing you are interested in listening to:

"I will do whatever it takes to make up for my A"

Anything less is just noise. Drunken noise.

Click the link in my sig and get lined up for Plan B ASAP.

I thought I was being bad to complain at him. He keeps saying "I'm here." But he gets all riled up when I demand that he has zero contact with OW and with facebook girl. He says I am issuing ultimatums and trying to control him and if he has friends or not.

Yes, so far he is complying, but his spirit is very bad. Sometimes he seems desperate to keep me and then he goes into this mode of I am awful and he is going to bail if I am making it hard on him.

He says he is deeply attached to me but the love is buried "under all the drama and upset."

I want to smack him and say well who the heck caused all the drama and upset?!

I KNOW who caused the worst of it. Am not saying I feel I am perfect or that I can't improve, but I am getting pretty upset most of the time trying to interact with him because he acts like what happened in March should STAY in March. He is constantly edging around like he is just so put upon.

Today he was asking me why I was so upset about facebook girl. He said he talks to women all the time for work etc, and he wanted to know why I was upset about facebook girl and not every other woman he comes into contact with.

I was near speechless, I was so upset. Can he actually be this dumb?

Also, facebook girl's husband caught onto her antics online and he has issued a few ultimatums of his own. She has been pulled offline and is not allowed by her husband to continue running all over the place interacting with whoever she wants. I guess she was playing some online game and getting on voice with all of these guys, then getting drunk with them half the night and carrying on. He is a doctor and was spending nights in the ER while she was doing all of this. Apparantly she doesn't want much to do with my WH husband or anyone else anymore.

I feel ambiguous about OC. From my own feelings I want the kid not to exist at the same time that situation is still not settled. OW husband is furious. I don't feel good about that little baby stuck in the middle of all of that.

I would like to whack my WH, I heard killin' was illegal though..

Melody, he has met all conditions in terms of actions except agreeing to never seeing OC again. It's his attitude that I am mistreating him that is getting to me. I feel really angry and hurt about it. I'm not trusting his will to keep up the actions and he is giving me this whole hurt thing. I think he IS hurt. By his OWN behavior! And he is trying to make a case with me how bad I am for my upset and complaints at him.

We had two very good weeks, a lot of seeming improvement and he was great, but last couple of days, I had a bad day of hurting and resenting and he saw it and said let's talk about it. I CAN'T seem to talk to him about it without a lot of hurt and anger coming out. Then he gets all whiny and poor him and I feel so outraged that he thinks the repercussions he has even come CLOSE to the hurt I feel.

Maybe that is a bad attitude on my part. I agree he is not fully on board. I think if I insist, he will agree not to see OC. This is the thing, though, he will do as I insist, but he is not doing it on bended knee, hat in hand.

What do I do about it? Is this just a phase and it will get better, or am I missing out on something I should be doing?

As far as him wanting to change.. he wants things back to where they were when we had the best times. I do, too. But his attitude is that HE is hurt and he is REALLY hurt not to be trusted and he says I have nothing to fear and I am not believing him. I DO fear. I don't trust him, and I don't WANT to trust him right now. I want to punch him. Sorry

Did you read my post?

Ellie, by repeating what he says and feels it sounds suspiciously like you have been listening to him ramble.

Don't do that. It'll make your ears bleed.

Ok will read the post again. Sorry, I think I got started and am just venting.

My ears are bleeding :*

That means nothing. He was there before, wasn't he??

no, he walked out everytime he didnt like something I tried to say. now he sits and listens.

but, overall you have a very good point.

Let's give him a medal for stating the blindingly obvious!

See that tree over there, that is 'there'!

Ellie he's dangerous and completely unremorseful. Insist on EPs and prepare for Plan B.

When he's serious, he will act serious.

Not whiny or gaslightery or blaming or insisting on what HE wants to recover from this affair

Hat in hand serious. Anything less is a lie.

I told him my EP's and included the OC. He says I am hard hearted and he walked out.

I guess.

I personally can't think of anything more hard hearted than being an adulterer and keeping my 'promised to love and cherish' wife under my bootheel of secrecy so I don't have to consider her in any way.

Maybe that's just me.

Plan B?

I was thinking today that he is a very damaged person. he seems to try, then off the deep side he goes. I don't mean a damaged Wayward, but a damaged person. From all of the mental and emotional abuse he suffered.

Possibly plan B. I want to give it another couple of weeks. I have things in place for plan B.

What do you guys think of asking him to go into therapy?

Will he call the MB coaching center? Therapy will probably do more damage to your M then good.

If he will call the MB coaching center I think that would be good.

Nope, not just you.

Adultery is the most "hard hearted" thing a spouse can do. End of.

Ellie, I really feel for you. You are in one of the most difficult situations to recover from. There is an OC. Even if your WH meets your bar (which I worry you have not set high enough), you will have higher than usual resentment to overcome.

Personally, I think therapy will just lead you both (but especially you) down a maze of complex delays. Your WH will start to find "reasons" for why there are such difficult and complex delays in committing to marital recovery and your conditions for recovery. It will become a neverending saga of the whys, ifs, buts and what YOU need to do support HIM. Feeding your resentment. Rather than the real issue of what HE needs to be doing to meet YOUR bar. And his "therapist" will back him, reinforce him. Remember, YOU have been betrayed. His issues are his own. YOU don't deserve them.

If your WH is a damaged person, that is his to own. You are not expected to wait around whilst he deals with it. If he wants to address the issues in his marriage, he can act on these here and now, irrespective of what crap he has to deal with in his past. ACTIONS. Do not wait for him to resolve his "issues". He may never. They may become an excuse.

Get your ducks in a row for Plan B. Meanwhile, if you can, get WH to contact the Harley's.