I think reading hit it on the head, after all, spring is in the air.

Don't beat yourself up about it, and remember, you have done and are doing your part, and have broken no vows.

That's what is great about those vows, they are always revealing themselves as more important, wildly beyond what we thought in the beginning, when we thought they were just rules.

I don't know Scotty, I know that I am not done with Plan B and personal recovery, either though well on my way. I have fewer ties than you do not having any children with him. Your feelings for the father of your children are always going to be more complex.

I know that my divorce will sever whatever ties are left. Its that I still feel bound to him through my undissolved vows. Right up until 'the fat lady sings' I would hear him out regarding recovery, but if he allows a divorce to be finalised, simply to stay in contact with her, I would ask my (amazing) IM to not to pass any message at all post divorce.

Its funny, but I have been having some 'he wasn't all bad' thoughts lately too. The gentlesness of his smile, how much he cared about his friends, the way he loved me and showed it...

I don't usually allow those thoughts but recently I did - I think its important to see a realistic picture, not a demonisation of the WH. As Dr H says, they are usually good people who turned down a bad road and kept going for weakness and temptation.

I look around my house too and see changes and fresh memories of good times he has missed out on. But I realise that during that time, he will have changed too, and not for the better. He will have become steadily more wayward and probably does not have that gentle smile any more. How could he?

Thank you Reading, and CP. I think you two are very right. Taker is YELLING at me. WANT WANT WANT. I know that I have done everything I could. I didn't even want to write about this on here, because I looked at it as a negative, and focusing too much on Bampot. Then, I decided that as with everything, you take the good with the bad. Also, when you are at a low point, that's when change can happen. Times of difficulty are just opportunities to become better.


Oh, I KNOW that Bampot is not that same man that he once was. I know that that goodness in him is covered in some stinking mess, and he probably wouldn't even recognize it anymore. There are a lot of things he would need to change for me to even consider recovery with him at this point.

There are moments, when I think about if I am ready to file for divorce. I think about what it would take for me to consider recovery with Bampot. I think about what kind of man I would be willing to let into my life. I actually believe that I would need to hold Bampot to a higher standard than another man, because I already know what I am getting with him. I know he is an adulterer. I know how he is capable of tearing my life apart. And, even though we have good history, there is a whole hill of bad history there to overcome that wouldn't be there with someone else. Sometimes, that is quite appealing to me.

A different man wouldn't look at my children, and share the pride I feel, ever. Another man couldn't love my children the way that I do. And Bampot, the way that he is right now, isn't a very good father to my boys. That hurts me. I'm doing a great job with them, and I ensure that the male role models they have are positive ones. It's important that they know right from wrong, and that they grow up to be fine young men. We're on our way there(and no thanks to Bampot).

I'm not ready to move on. How do I know? Well, I still ask myself that question, if Bampot were to come to me, TODAY, hat in hands willing to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I ask, would I consider letting him try? My answer is "Yes." Which means that it wouldn't be fair to another man to get any less than all of me. KWIM?

t/j(can I actually t/j myself?) I'm going to see Hunger Games tonight.

Well, if you release yourself from his wife-dom and are free of that AND otherwise do nothing else but live your life....he still could come back with hat in hand.

He still could choose to be a family with you.

The only difference is you have more options yourself. You release yourself to move more freely.

You wouldn't have to date. Wouldn't have to consider dating. But you could.


HTMS

It would not mean you are any less committed of a wife. Truly.

Yes Scotty, and that is where I am also, and why I stayed for the kids sake too.

So now, with the taste of battle for the important things in life, why would I settle for a Girlfriend? I could have one, a comforter and friend, but because they always chased me, and never really knew me, and I jumped in with sword drawn and six-guns blazing,(like is expected of men?), I did not do the research, or take the mature precautions, at the prime of life.

Yes I know life is not over yet, and I know there is much to be enjoyed, but the playing field has been changed..Not looking for good-looking without character and good relations inside. Not looking to save anyone. Not looking at all..and I am determined to be happy like that.

Good friends trumps all of that stuff, always did, and always will, the rest are just bennies.

Man/Women were built for relationship, and truth and light makes good ones/friends, and those that you can depend upon, whether is sickness or in health, they have your back.

People have thier plans, and God has His. We can trust in His

Scotty rocks

Just glad I am too old to worry about all that relationship stuff now, and have nothing to prove

I was told you are having dreams. I am also having dreams, and they have been haunting me lately.

I wake in the middle of the night almost 100% certain I am laying next to my husband in our old home in our old bed surrounded by our babies.

I wake startled and all that is next to me are my kids. Usually the baby and four year old.

It is so real ... I can hear him ... feel him ... remember him.

I am not sure what to do with this in Plan B. You cannot control your dreams.

I sit here with tears of utter sadness pouring out of my eyes because I want the images to go away. I want him to be dead. I want the nightmare to end.

I keep telling myself ... he is a full blown addict. He is still in an active affair, and somewhere down there is my amazing husband.

I am sorry you are having the dreams. I know others are having them also. They really can get a person stuck in Plan B. I am hoping some meditation and self soothing before bed will help me overcome the pain of them, or make them go away.

Tough~

Thanx reading and CP.

PI, the dreams had left me, and then it started again. Not often, but it usually follows where my mind has been going. I know that this time, my dreams are happening because I want to be better at PB and be moving on, but I am afraid. There is a real part of me that doesn't want to move forward, into that unknown world without some tie to the old me. It really has nothing to do with Bampot. I mean it. It's about how I was someone for years, someone's wife, and it's like that identity has been taken away from me. I am not ready to be labeled as divorced, because a real solid part of me will believe that it means I failed.

I logically know that it wasn't about me. I know I am NOT to blame for Bampot's affair. Don't worry about that.

I guess I'm just not ready to give in to defeat. Silly, huh?

Bampot isn't someone today whom I would be proud to call husband. The sad fact is, that he still is, but only as long as I want him to be. I have done everything possible and ANYONE would be proud to call me wife. It's too bad that the one person whom I am actually married to has forgotten that, and chose somewhere else to lay his head.

((((Scotty))))

I don't have anything to add, but thanks for being there for all of us even though you deal with your own situation. I admire your strength and draw from it at times.

Thanx GJM. I hope you will be here to guide the BH's who come here with you kick azz Plan Aing skills. You rock.

I know the pain adultery causes, and I hope to make the world a little less painful for someone else. I think that's why many of the long term posters are trying to do. I often times would pray for soldiers in the war against adultery, and I believe many of those people post on this very forum. Forever grateful.

I post about my experience in hopes that someone else will see that they are not alone. I also get a lot of strength from being here. At times, MB has been my lifeline. Just paying it forward. MB had a GIANT account in my Love Bank.

It will take time for the dreams to go away, and the power of them is intense I know.

It helps to remember what the waywards represent, and to be glad to be rid of them, so new and familiar dreams can come into your heart and imagination.

You know what is good and right, and you will be healed in time, as you allow them to ruin their life and future, and wrench their hands from yours, and believe again.

It can be hypnotizing, the lack of care they have for themselves, and the question of why..Alien stuff, mind bending because we knew them once, and they had so much potential, and we once relied on them for our own souls prosperity.

But they bought the Alien package, selfish realization, drugs, and control. Lies and deceit, manipulation, all to receive power, because they were afraid. Afraid of missing out, of not getting their fair share. They were conned by the oldest tricks in the book, and we couldn't help them, because they thought they knew better.

They think they won something, and they are fools throwing everything away worth anything, and they think they got rid of us too..

Peachys story is awesome, along with many others here on the threads, of how the wages on Sin is spiritual death, and if you go to far, real death,(my story).

I am thankful for Gods guidance in my life, and I am positive the black days will show a reason, and a hope for my children and others. Things move ahead slowly, but they do move ahead, and I am thankful that they do.

Chin up ladies

Amen and honorable indeed

Thanks Scotty...the mistake I made in 2001 when I first found this site (can't remember my user name for the life of me), was that I implemented bits and pieces and when everything started going smoothly, I forgot about MB. Back then, the support wasn't near what it is today. I'm grateful for what it is right now.

I did tackle Plan A like no other. lol...Mortarman likes to pop up on me every now and then and inspire me to stick with the plan. I wish I would see him on here more often, but I know he's busy with the family and new home.

You've got that right. I wasn't around but I hear tell that people were CHASTISED for not putting up with wayward bullpucky!

Scotty (and PI) - one thing that I learned how to do is plan my dreams. I've dealt with panic attacks at night that would wake me in a heart beat - typically caused by crunching numbers in my sleep. The payables would cause the freak-out and the receivables would calm me down and I could go to sleep; until 1991 when the receivables didn't outweigh the payables. Ever since then the dreams have been uncontrollable unless I planned out my dreams by ordering my thoughts.

It's tough when you lay down at night; you're tired, and some nights you just let the problems of the day melt into your pillow - but that's when they sneak into your dreams trying to get your subconscious to sort them out.

I found my most effective dreaming happened when I would sort out my thoughts to a singular focus - Only one problem allowed on my nightly stage and it was never going to be THE BIG problem that threatened to overwhelm me. It was a problem I knew I had the power within me to resolve.

I used music - something step-by-step methodical. At first when I started using this technique I tried Janet Jackson Black Cat - but that just brought the BIG PROBLEM front and center - I was angry and powerless with THAT problem. And Black Cat just put me front and center, fighting THAT problem instead of solving those things that were mine to solve.

I saw Mary Poppins and there was some funny music that used a kazoo - the sidewalk picture playground with the penguin waiters? I'd use that to minimize the terror I felt about the BIG PROBLEM, make it funny and yank that problem off my stage. Then I'd mentally walk through Bach Aire note by note to get my preferred problem back front and center. I'd start with the string bass notes louder 1 - 2 - 3 - 4; 1 - 2 - 3 - 4; (and then the violins take over the stage with the melody...). And I'd have another thought speaking with the music as accompaniment that my dreams would teach me how to solve this one little problem and that I'd wake refreshed and peaceful. I'd wake with confidence that this little problem was easily solved and I would know what to do. Typically it worked fantastically.

Lately, the BIG PROBLEM has been trying to get back into my dreams and I had fallen out of this habit, so your situation was timely in bringing this back to my awareness. Tonight, Bach will reign supreme in the orchestra pit and I will choose the actors on my stage - not some big problem that doesn't know when it's whooped! It will get the message, or get starved out of existence! But it's not getting on my stage!

Don't we all need to Plan B our BIG PROBLEMS? If we truly can't fix it, change it, etc. is it really ours to solve? Wayward husbands/wives; politics; debt; anything else that we have little or no control over?

Thats funny because I would have been one to take the punishment, and let her get away with everything.

when real success came for us, (started at least), when I left her becuase of drinking.

Now if I had MB, to hold my feet to the fire, to hold hers to the fire, to seek treatment for drinking..Yes like Dr H says, stopping the love affair with substance abuse, is just the beggining of recovery..Then we could have put our efforts in real work, and healing also..

All that wasted time not dealing with the right issues..

I believe in MB because I tried it the CP way, and the WW way, and it failed, but everything I did do the MB way, worked, even though it was purely by accident.

Thanx LnT, food for thought.

I am pretty dern certain that my WH doesn't label himself as my "husband" anymore. I am sure I am, in his mind, his ex.

Carving out a life that is just for me and my boys. I still find myself taking out 4 plates at dinner, or diving things into 4. It's weird when I catch myself doing that, because, it's been more than 2 YEARS.

It'll take time to wean yourself off doing that, I think. Just be patient with yourself.

ITA and


Ditto