This is a fact.
Both she and her boyfriend are married to other people.

Which "marriage she is currently in" are you talking about?

Her real marriage, or her pretend marriage?

Just askin' ........

You left off the rest of that scripture, which gives the false impression that the scripture is against judging, when it is not. The scripture is an admonition against HYPOCRISY:

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Matthew 7:5

See? It says nothing against judging, it says don't judge hypocritically. And unless someone on this thread is in an active affairage themselves, they are not being hypocrites.

Do you believe that juries are sinning when they judge? Or that we are sinning when we judge right from wrong? That is ludicrous.

We are called to judge right from wrong and judge with "righteous judgment." And we can all judge that adultery is wrong. We are Christians and we should do that. I have seen that done very well on this thread.

I would ask that you rethink your train of thought here. You are basically saying it is BAD to say that something is BAD. That is not a Christian doctrine but a doctrine straight out of hell. Throughout the Bible, God calls adultery adultery and that is not a sin. IT is a sin to commit adultery, however.

But what you are saying here it is unChristian to SAY that evil is evil. No, it is not!

And most importantly, who are you to say you can help a person in an affairage when Dr Harley says he CAN'T? He has stated quite honestly over and over again that he doesn't know how to save those marriages. Do you? Seriously??

I called this an affairage in error. It is not an affairage, because they are not married. It is an AFFAIR!!

No thank you. I would rather put myself in her children's shoes, which is easy to do since my own children are in a similar position. Going through one family breaking up only to be dragged through another mess.

Yet this poster is like any other wayward, fixated on the AP which has led her into the fog vs seeing the situation for what it really is.

This relationship is doomed and she should just focus on her children. Probably until they are grown, as Dr Harley says.

My thoughts exactly.

There have been times, MNG, when we have had people who were simply playing house. There are tonnes of people who help with that. The fact of the matter here is that these 2 people are BOTH married to OTHER people. That in of itself makes them guilty of committing adultery, no matter how you slice it. On a marriage building website, we can't advocate this type of behaviour.

I saw the advice that she should end this "relationship", get a divorce, and if her OM got a divorce, she could then think about starting a relationship with him.

I don't see why the OP is so surprised that her beau has continued underhanded and deceitful behaviour when that is all that he has already exhibited. And staying together simply because they made a mistake by having a child together is ridiculous. Her older children don't have their father around, this poster chose to have a third child in a non-commited "relationship". Now she needs to live with those choices.

Widow, in case you are still around. Really, what you should do is focus on taking care of your children, getting a divorce, and spending some time getting your life together before you even consider dating. Is it at all possible that you chose this man due to the state your life was in?

p.s. just wnnted to add that our prisons are full of people who cannot judge right from wrong. That is right where they belong!

The thief called out to Jesus and repented, MNG. The word "repentance" translated from the Greek word metanoia literally means "a change of mind". This poster has not changed her mind -- She wishes to continue in her adulterous relationship.

I think you are misinterpreting Matthew 7:1-2. I fully expect to be judged in the same manner which I am judging PSWidow. I committed adultery, and I have repented. Today, I very much judge my own adultery -- all adultery in fact -- as dead wrong. I can never make what I did okay -- it was bad then, it will be bad tomorrow and all the days forevermore. I am not judging this person by any standard harsher than the one I use for myself.

This woman is married to someone other than her married boyfriend -- She and he are committing adultery -- that is a plain and simple fact. I judge that as WRONG. The Marriage Builders program was designed to be used by people who are married -- to each other.

I find it vulgar that you are suggesting active adulterers use the MB Program to aid their adultery - especially vulgar in the venue that you are choosing to do it in. That is not okay in my book.

I'd like to present for your consideration a quote that MelodyLane had in her signature for a long time -- it may still be there, I'm unsure.


Mrs. W

I don't get it... do you not realize that she is married to another man and that he is married to another woman? Do you think two 'victims' of the legal system came together? As I already said, people CAN get divorced, especially within 15 years, it's that they don't take the financial/legal means to do so. I'm afraid you've been duped about what is and isn't possible, one does not need to be forced in marriage forever (this is particularly true in Canada and your mother is really up a creek if something bad happens to her - you do realize that your step-father is still legally in charge of many things, right? No matter what other verbal statements/papers are made?)

It is what it is.

Right now, the only marriage she is IN, is in her boyfriend and his wife's marriage. Having a baby with your boyfriend does not create divorce and a new marriage. It means having a baby with a married man and hoping he will change his ways. We all know how that works out, and you don't even need to believe in marriage to know this.

One also wonders who the legal father of this baby is because unless she's been back and forth through court in the past 7 months, it is her husband's child.

All biblical beliefs of marriage aside, a lot of poor legal choices have been made here, by both and her and your mother. That's what happens when you don't bother with your 'piece of paper' as it is called. Terry Schiavo's parents learned this the hard way.

In England, if one spouse petitions for a divorce and the other refuses, the petitioner will be granted a divorce after 5 years' separation. One spouse cannot stop the other forever from getting a divorce.

It can't be that different in any of the 50 states of the USA, surely.

OK .. this will be the last time I post on this thread. Yes I would like to HEAR she is going to use the tools to fix her CURRENT marriage (not her pretend one).

I am not going to defend this lady ... mostly because I am on the same page as you all in regards to her affair she is currently in. I DONT AGREE with her and I DO AGREE with all of you and what MB says on how it will most likely end up. But she asked what she could do.. will the help given be able to help her? I dont know .. should she leave her current affair partner and go back to her hubby ... YES! Do I think she should be divorced before she dates again .. YES! Has the OP made a huge mistake having a baby with a man who is married to someone else? OF COURSE! Do I think she has much of a chance with her freeloading Boyfriend? NO! Is a relationship with this boyfriend doomed? Most Likely. I dont approve AT ALL with what she has done .. but none the less she has done it and seems like she really wants to make it work with her current partner. WE ALL KNOW IT PROBABLY WONT WORK...

ML I am not trying to save her marriage .. only give the info she requested. If she can make it work for her .. great .. if not .. nothing I can do about it, thats not my problem. I also agree with you about the rest of that scripture .. I judge adultery as wrong too .. no matter how its put together.

I too feel sorry for her kids ... all of them. My brothers are both direct results of a similar situation (both of them have different dads than mine and none of which she married) and since I have become a serious advocate of MB I have pretty much cast away my entire family since I have come down hard on them all recently.

Does no one see or understand MY perspective on this? You guys are attacking me now like I am some sort of threat to MB. I am far from that .. Its not like i disagee with what you guys are saying.. I just dont see the harm in offering up info that she wants to TRY? Let her fail ... then when she finally gets it .. and gets rid of the guy cuz he is such a deadbeat wackin off to porn and playing video games all day with no direction in life or a job. MAYBE she will come back here again with a new appreciation and change her approach.



So again .. Sorry if I offended anyone. I just want to help and feel like I am making a difference in someones life here .. and i seen a spot to give info and did ... and now feel like I am on trial here at MB with the only online community that I adore and respect. So please forgive my ignorance. I will steer clear of situations like these from now on.

MNG

Edit to add ...

The above is exactly right ... and I may have fallen victim to it here.

Sugarcane I believe the OP is in Canada, isn't she?

In Canada, it is only one year of separation and you can divorce without the other party signing.

In the US, it varies by state.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Unfortunately, she is not interested in working on her actual marriage.


She did not ask for help with her real marriage. Just her pretend marriage.
Marriage Builders is based on some very important cornerstones. PORH is required before POJA can be effective.
When a relationship is based on Radical Fantasy, and not Radical Honesty, nothing in the MB play book will work.


You quoted me. Then you wrote this. (above)
Am I to assume you feel attacked by me?
I assure you, my post was not any sort of personal attack of you, MNG.
I could not, for the life of me, figure out what 'marriage' you were reaching out to help.


She has no intention of trying MB with her legal marriage.

Here is what she wrote. Her most important question.


I can answer that.
No. Stop snooping.
What's the point?
You already know he's cheating.
You already know he's not paying the bills.
You already know he's not contributing to the household duties.

He already knows you are not going to actually do anything about his cheating/laziness/game obsession.

And, most importantly, you have taught this man that you are willing to push the fact of his dishonesty aside, because you are afraid he might leave you.

No matter where you go, there you are.

This relationship has reached a stalemate, and no amount of snooping will change that.

Well, there you go, Hopeful. It appears to be even easier than I thought.

Thanks, alis.

I wasn't disagreeing or challenging you - only mentioning that she is in Canada.

Canadians are strange creatures at times.

That's not completely true. If there are issues with finances of child custody, they must go through court before the divorce can be final. Also, the one year separation doesn't need to be done with PROOF of an affair, but again, only if there is agreement with finances and custody.

In any case, "dating" while married is adultery. So if it takes this poster a bazillion years to get a divorce, then she shouldn't date until it is done. Plain and simple.

My point was not to explore the divorce procedures per se. My point was that in the jurisdictions we are discussing, it is not possible for someone to "refuse to divorce" beyond a relatively small period of time - something between 1 and 5 years. Yes, the courts might slow that down if there are assets to be unpicked, but that is not the same as one spouse being in a position unilaterally to refuse to divorce.

MrNiceGuy lives in Canada, and might well be talking about a relative who lives there also. I wonder how that person has been able to "refuse to divorce" for the extreme length of time he stated. I think there must be more to that story.

Sugar, I am also Canadian. I know that people can refuse to sign the papers, but it isn't anything that will actually stop someone from getting a divorce if they want one. They can go to court and get one. It's the same in most places. I only brought up the finances and custody to show that in this case, with the OP, it is possible that the divorce is on hold, but it doesn't negate the fact that she is committing adultery by being in this "relationship" with her M.OM.

I know, Scotty. I'm not arguing about her, I'm arguing about him - MNG! And I'm not arguing with you!