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OK, since nobody seems to be getting the message - not just cyndyk, but practically anyone I ever communicate with - let me tell you what the problem really is:

I still love the man.

Should I say that again?

I still love the man.

I am not walking around "angry". For the last three years, I have been trying my best to put my life back together. I work seven days a week, every week, doing 50-60 hours a week of medical transcription and writing another novel with any time left over.

I ran into the news about his near-instant remarriage only about 10 days ago and yes, it was extremely shocking to me.

But, as I said, the real problem is that I still love the man. I was with him too long and was too close with him and things were too good for too many years until he started chasing girls at work and sorry, I was not willing to sell out and look the other way about that - not even to keep him around.

Now, "should" I feel this way? Everybody will tell me no, I should not. But I do. It's just there. Believe me, my life would be way easier if I cared about him as little as he (rather obviously) cares about me. I need Mr. Spock to come over and place his hand on my face and say, "Forget", but that's not going to happen.

I still love the man. I never, ever acted on it. I have had zero contact with him since the day he left almost four years ago. That should be obvious, given that I didn't even know he was married. It's just there, as I said. Some bonds cannot be broken no matter what the other person does. I had a responsibility to not allow him to hurt me anymore, since he would not stop, and I did make it stop.

But this is the real problem. I still love the man. I don't hang onto it or try to force it out of some kind of spite. I don't have to. It's just there. I learned to live with it. It is all I have left of a life that I *thought* was worth fighting for, so I did fight for it. I don't anymore. But it's all I have left and in a bizarre way, it comforts me.

I am working and I am functional. If I still love someone that I raised children with and tried to build a life with for nearly 30 years, so what? I never, ever bother him or any of my former family. It seems to me that's it's far more abnormal to cold-bloodedly blow that family up and immediately try to recreate it with somebody else, but that's just me.

But if I'm not dating every guy that pops up online, and not "moving on" to everyone's satisfaction, this is why. It's not out of hate and it's not out of anger. It's because I still love the man. That may well be where I remain and if I can find a measure of comfort there, so what? It's more than many people have.


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Originally Posted by cyndyk
She is so quick to judge everyone on their actions. But she won't look in the mirror to see how this whole situation and her actions have impacted those close to her. It really has.
That is such a heartless thing to say about your mother's reactions to finding about about your father's rapid re-marriage, and your celebration of his abandonment of your mother to the point of your brother being best man at the wedding - best man; there can be no bigger an endorsement of a marriage - that my breath has been taken away.

What does she have to look in the mirror for? Has she hurt any of you by betraying and abandoning you as your father has done to her? And with many betrayals over many years, such as he committed?

How has she hurt you?

Shame on you, cyndyk, for coming here and posting those words. SHAME ON YOU.


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Actually Milan, your feelings and expression of hurt are much more emotionally healthy then 'just moving on'. Life is not some 3rd world country airport baggage claim, instead at your baggage will be there at your destination. Dealing with your emotions is much healthier in the long run.

4years isn't long, you need time.

Cindy, as the daughter of a father who married his mistress days after the divorce was final, I understand your position and how you are feeling. The only way I can deal with it is to. E very clear I want a relationship with both parents. It is an ostrich approach. I know. But is the best I can do. Good luck, it is an awful position to be in.

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And PS my mothers anger lasted for 12 or so years, so get used to it.

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I have a relationship with both parents. But I don't think Mulan wants it that way. She has called me an enabler and terrible person because of that. How heartless is that? She can't watch my children or travel anywhere without having an anxiety attack. She screams and yells at people in the house right now. My brother and I included.

Both she and XH made their home and emotional hell for my brother for a good 5 years. How does that fair for him?

There is a lot you don't see on a message board. I know she still loves him. I understand that. But that love is holding her hostage in a cycle of depression and anger that she cannot move beyond.

I'm not saying "move beyond" loving him. Love him forwever. We all feel like you'll love him forever and forget about everyone else in front of you.


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P.S. I also think that a huge part of the problem here is that XWH has all of his family members, including our kids, 100% convinced that he never, ever cheated in any way and that I just went nuts for no reason and he is just the poor poor victim of his crazy insane wife and what could poor little him do but escape and marry somebody way better?

That's okay. He had me fooled for a long time, too. But the rest of the family did not see the things I saw myself (because I used to work in the same place as him), did not read the emails I read, did not have the information I had.

He's good. He is a consummate liar and manipulator, as every cheater is. He knew exactly how to push my buttons to provoke a meltdown, such as deliberately disappearing on me when I had specifically asked him not to do that (back when I was still trying to work with him to save it) and then insist to everyone else that he had no idea what the problem was and I was obviously just crazy and in need of "help".

I know that many Betrayed Spouses run into the same thing: People Don't Believe You. It Must Be Your Fault if you partner is leaving. You are just jealous/controlling/insane/hallucinating.

So I'm fighting that battle, too - the battle of being disbelieved. But it's always easier to blame the spouse who is going crazy over being betrayed than it is to blame the cheater who is coldly pushing the buttons behind the scenes, because he is *such* a great guy and he would *never* do anything like that. Right?

Don't get me wrong. I don't want THAT guy back. He's the one I have 100% avoided for the last four years. But it is true that I still love the man he was for so long. I have no trouble making the distinction and as I said, I do sometimes find comfort in it.

Sure would be nice if people believed me, but I understand why they don't. He had me fooled for a long time, too.


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I've always told you that I believed you. I've listened to you on many occasions. I get it. I'm just done re-hashing things that happened over 10 years ago. I've given you a lot of support over the years. I've been there for you the best I could.

What do you want from me? That is what I don't understand. Aren't we allowed to have a relationship with both of you? We love you both? Neither of you are perfect at all. Both of you have major issues. But both of you are good too. We are kids and old enough to have a relationship with you both. What is wrong with that? It is our choice. The situation happened between the both of you. For awhile, it impacted all of us. But in the end, you both got divorced. And we found a way to way to make it work with both of you. For the kids in the situation, I think that is fair and appropriate.


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Originally Posted by Mulan
I still love the man.

That's either the maple-syrup-in-January drain of your LB$ occuring in Plan B... or there are some deposits being made somewhere, somehow.

Too bad he's a dip, eh?



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Cindy, it takes time. It is a wave of emotions of which the amplitude only softens gradually.

You are emotionally where I was about 15 years ago. I too got sick and tired of my mothers anger and wished it would just go away. Instead, I couldn't understand my projection, untill I dealt with my suppressed anger towards both my parents for failing me and my brother. Currently working on that one, a work in progress. I have finally after so many years told each of them how they failed and betrayed me, the child too. And I was an adult when this all happened, but I for always be their child.

It sucks to be a child of a longstanding marriage that ended because of adultery.

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I have apologized to both my kids for trying too long and too hard to save it. I *thought* I was still dealing with the man he had been, and I thought that even if things were awful at the time *it would be worth it* if our family could stay together.

I turned out to be wrong about that. I should have cut him loose long before I did. And I'm sorry, now, that I didn't.

Yes, it's true that I do sometimes suffer from anxiety attacks and often struggle a great emotionally. But all I can say is that this is a very, very long process and I am doing the best I can. I am not going to take anti-depressants or Xanax or Ativan just so I can get through a day, which far too many people do.

You can't go around this stuff. You have to go *through* it. Yeah, it's really really tough. But in the long run, it's a much healthier way to deal with it.

And yes, ONE screaming meltdown in FOUR YEARS, about a week after I found about his new wife and the support she was getting. One Time.

I don't expect anyone to really understand this if you have not been through it. I know I didn't. I am doing the best I can but it takes one hell of a long time. I just wish folks would understand that having very strong feelings about losing your family IS normal. Instantly moving on and trying to forget the old family and recreate it (!) is NOT normal. But I also realize that very, very few people are going to understand that.


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Originally Posted by cyndyk
I have a relationship with both parents. But I don't think Mulan wants it that way. She has called me an enabler and terrible person because of that. How heartless is that? She can't watch my children or travel anywhere without having an anxiety attack. She screams and yells at people in the house right now. My brother and I included.

Both she and XH made their home and emotional hell for my brother for a good 5 years. How does that fair for him?
If you were neutral towards your father after he left your mother in order not to have to be a faithful husband to her, and if you were kindly to him when he announced that he had moved on from his long marriage and would be marrying somebody 4 months after his divorce, then you were an enabler. If you were happy for him to do whatever he wanted to make himself happy then you were/are an enabler. What else would you call it?

We are not talking about vulnerable young kids or early teens here, cyndyk. You must have been in your late 20s when you father abandoned your mother. You might even have been married with children of your own. If you were "neutral" about the evil of his acts then you were not neutral; you were an enabler, given your blessing to that evil. You were old enough to know right from wrong.

It wasn't fair that your brother's home life was hell for 5 years before your father left, but your mother did not create that hell. Your father did, by being an adulterer and insisting that she put up with it.

You are more than old enough to know right from wrong and yet you show no signs of being able to discriminate. Is adultery wrong, or not?


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Quote
That's either the maple-syrup-in-January drain of your LB$ occuring in Plan B... or there are some deposits being made somewhere, somehow.

Well, the Harleys say that Plan B, properly done, allows you to preserve your love for the WS since they are not able to hurt you anymore and you can remember them as they were. I guess they were right.


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Originally Posted by Mulan
I have apologized to both my kids for trying too long and too hard to save it. I *thought* I was still dealing with the man he had been, and I thought that even if things were awful at the time *it would be worth it* if our family could stay together.

I turned out to be wrong about that. I should have cut him loose long before I did. And I'm sorry, now, that I didn't.

Yes, it's true that I do sometimes suffer from anxiety attacks and often struggle a great emotionally. But all I can say is that this is a very, very long process and I am doing the best I can. I am not going to take anti-depressants or Xanax or Ativan just so I can get through a day, which far too many people do.

You can't go around this stuff. You have to go *through* it. Yeah, it's really really tough. But in the long run, it's a much healthier way to deal with it.

And yes, ONE screaming meltdown in FOUR YEARS, about a week after I found about his new wife and the support she was getting. One Time.

I don't expect anyone to really understand this if you have not been through it. I know I didn't. I am doing the best I can but it takes one hell of a long time. I just wish folks would understand that having very strong feelings about losing your family IS normal. Instantly moving on and trying to forget the old family and recreate it (!) is NOT normal. But I also realize that very, very few people are going to understand that.

II just don't understand it and I guess that makes me terrible. You have every right to be devastated the rest of your life. I really understand it. I still believe the hurt and anger are holding you hostage from being truly happy. I feel like the hurt and anger are so strong that you struggle so much emotionally because of it. I just wish you can find a way to channel and sort out this anger and depression in a healthier way. Instead of constantly re-hashing everything that has happened over and over. I honestly don't feel like you listen to anything any of us are saying. I really don't. You don't understand how YOUR actions in the last five years have impacted us. I just wish you would be accountable and take responsibility for some it too. Sure you didn't start the process, but some of your rage, anger and irrationality really contributed to the household's demise as well. You don't see that. You are too stubborn to realize or listen or understand anything beyond the "cheater".

I feel like I've lost YOU in this. This is a situation you cannot control any longer.


Re: Being an enabler. This is not my situation. Sure, his "cheating" apprently broke up the family. But in the end it broke up their marriage. It is my decision about how I handle the relationship with XH moving beyond their divorce. If I feel that I have enough information to reconcile with him, that is my choice. I think of my relationship as two separate things. Sure, they divorced eachother. But that doesn't mean I have to permenantly divorce him too. I've said my peace to him. If I'm ok, with the answer, it is my choice.

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Originally Posted by Mulan
Yes, it's true that I do sometimes suffer from anxiety attacks and often struggle a great emotionally. But all I can say is that this is a very, very long process and I am doing the best I can. I am not going to take anti-depressants or Xanax or Ativan just so I can get through a day, which far too many people do.

You can't go around this stuff. You have to go *through* it. Yeah, it's really really tough. But in the long run, it's a much healthier way to deal with it.

And yes, ONE screaming meltdown in FOUR YEARS, about a week after I found about his new wife and the support she was getting. One Time.

I don't expect anyone to really understand this if you have not been through it. I know I didn't. I am doing the best I can but it takes one hell of a long time. I just wish folks would understand that having very strong feelings about losing your family IS normal. Instantly moving on and trying to forget the old family and recreate it (!) is NOT normal. But I also realize that very, very few people are going to understand that.
Most people here understand it, Mulan, because as BSs (most of us) we thought we were facing abandonment for the week and months until the affair died away, and some of us have actually faced abandonment. We do understand your feelings.

The thing is, we want you to get over/round/through this because it is hell living with the daily trauma. We want you to stop feeling this pain. But we would never, ever tell you to "look in the mirror" as if the deliberate destruction of your life was your fault.


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Originally Posted by cyndyk
II just don't understand it and I guess that makes me terrible. You have every right to be devastated the rest of your life. I really understand it. I still believe the hurt and anger are holding you hostage from being truly happy. I feel like the hurt and anger are so strong that you struggle so much emotionally because of it. I just wish you can find a way to channel and sort out this anger and depression in a healthier way. Instead of constantly re-hashing everything that has happened over and over. I honestly don't feel like you listen to anything any of us are saying. I really don't. You don't understand how YOUR actions in the last five years have impacted us. I just wish you would be accountable and take responsibility for some it too. Sure you didn't start the process, but some of your rage, anger and irrationality really contributed to the household's demise as well. You don't see that. You are too stubborn to realize or listen or understand anything beyond the "cheater".

I feel like I've lost YOU in this. This is a situation you cannot control any longer.


Re: Being an enabler. This is not my situation. Sure, his "cheating" apprently broke up the family. But in the end it broke up their marriage. It is my decision about how I handle the relationship with XH moving beyond their divorce. If I feel that I have enough information to reconcile with him, that is my choice. I think of my relationship as two separate things. Sure, they divorced eachother. But that doesn't mean I have to permenantly divorce him too. I've said my peace to him. If I'm ok, with the answer, it is my choice.
"Apparently".

Isn't it interesting how words convey meaning. By the use of that one word you demonstrate that you do not believe your mother. You are at best "neutral" between her claims and your father's denials; in other words, you don't necessarily believe that she is telling you the truth about her marriage. You are just as open to believing your adulterous father. And the other words underlined show that you are blaming your mother's anger at your father's affairs for "really contributing to the household's demise as well". You, young lady, need to hang your head in shame.

Yes, it is your decision about how you handle the relationship with your father. That is exactly my point. Nobody has said that it isn't your decision and your choice.

If you are okay with his answer about his adulteries, then that is indeed your choice. You are now seeing the consequence of YOUR CHOICE in the relationship you now have with your mother. and in her distress.

If you are "ok with the answer" then you are indeed an enabler. You might see nothing wrong with that - but don't come here trying to justify your behaviour and attitudes to this board. You chose to come here and defend your behaviour - but it won't be condoned on this board, where adultery is condemned.


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Should I not have a relationship with my own father? Isn't that up to me? Sure, I don't like what happened between them and I don't like his actions, but I should be allowed to have a relationship with him. It isn't about believing either side. I have made decisions about what happened, but in the end, it is between them, not me. Why should I be punished for actions that I had NOTHING to do with? Have you ever been a divorced kid? This is about the worst kind of attitude to have toward the child in the situation. Let's just make the "child" (I'm not a child) in the sitation choose and if it isnt the right choice, they are punished. Nice.


What do you suggest I do, then?

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I suggest compassion and empathy for your mother. And an understanding that there is a reason that adultery has been frowned upon throughout human history. Adultery leaves a wake of ruin in peoples lives.

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Originally Posted by HapHusb
I suggest compassion and empathy for your mother. And an understanding that there is a reason that adultery has been frowned upon throughout human history. Adultery leaves a wake of ruin in people lives.

I have been nothing but compassionate toward my mother for a long time. I became frustrated when she started judging my character through long, irrational emails.

She wants empathy toward her but there is no empathy towards us at all. It shouldn't just go one way.

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The messages on this board sound patronizing to her, not compassionate.

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Cyndyk

What I don't understand is who in your family has offered support love and care to your mum?? She left on her own to deal with her pain while you and your brother play the neutral card when infact your so quick to jump on here to berate your mums behaviour but I did t hear anything abou you criticising your fathers behaviour or telling him about what his behaviour has done to your family.

Do you have a relationship with just your father or do you have a nice relationship with his OW too?

Your mum endured a trauma and suffering that Dr Harley says is more painful than being raped or loosing a child, how do you then justify having contact and a relationship with the very people who destroyed your mothers happiness.

Seriously the neutral card your playing is warped your not at all neutral your being insensitive and uncaring.

My opinion is that you should have a relationship with your father once he makes the changes necessary to show that he is remorseful and sorry for his pitiful choices, until then he does not deserve to be a father to anyone.

PS I Hate my mother and have no contact with her but if she was in the same shoes your mother is in I would support her a million percent because I understand what she would be going through as I have been though it myself.

Until you go though something like infidelity please refrain form judging your mother s recovery because you have no idea of what that type of betrayal does to a person.





BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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