thank you estrela :O)

i'm not hedging my bets just yet. when i feel ready, i'll move over to the recovering board.

What are you going to do today Estrela?

I hope you have something nice planned for yourself. A little treat at the very least.

Today was not a treat. It was another conversation with WH. So stressful.

He told me he broke up with OW, and then had a session with SH.
SH told him the next steps: NC letter, NC plan, and then he should talk to him again to review it.

I told WH that I am happy for him that he broke up with OW but that I am not ready to commit or even to make any promises of committment to our M.
I told him I cannot see myself married to him anymore as I cannot see myself serving him as a wife.

He kept insisting that we have a chance, we would be happy together.
His approach changed a lot since we first spoke last week, but I still do not trust him.

When I am next to him, it is very tempting to pretend all was a bad dream, but I cannot do this to myself.

He proposed that we start slowly, and give it a try for few weeks to see how we feel. I don't know.

When I am away from him, I feel so much lighter and sure of myself.

Estrela, you have been betrayed by a serial adulterer. I think your responses are understandable, and wise.

Most BS's who have had time in Plan B are not going to run for marital recovery. We want to be sure the abuser has changed their ways. We need to figure out if the WS is really committed to recovery, and even if they are, if we still want it.

I would be more concerned for you if you were excited about recovery, trusting WH and agreeing to everything he suggested.

It is time for your WH to show actions. When is he reviewing with SH?

I think you should stay DARK meanwhile. Tell WH this is his time to take action. But that you still feel the need to protect yourself.

Once he has had review with SH, are you planning on a session to find out his opinion?

I can only imagine how stressful this time is for you. Hugs. Please take care of yourself.

As Caracal said, totally normal reaction to what you have had to deal with. You not only had to deal with affair(s) but with FR. That is much harder to get over and that is why we always caution BSs to keep the bar high.

I had the same thoughts as Caracal, will you be speaking with SH?

WH was supposed to work on his plans and then SH wanted to talk to both of us. I feel WH is waiting to see more on my side to decide how much he will put into it. I am giving him nothing, so without my nudging I doubt he will follow through. He will just revert to "let's just go back together and forget all of this happened".

And I do not want to nudge him. At all. Like you said, I've been through this many times with him, and always caved in. Do not want to do it again.

I really don't know what to do, and I feel silly saying this here, with all the help is being offered from all of you with such high integrity.

The thing is I know my WH and I know how he affects me. Meaning: I know he is not repentant right now. Not even close. Not even sorry. He might try to take this path if he thinks it will lead him home again. He knows he made a bad deal leaving home and wants to come back. I know he misses the house and the kids (and the role I play on this), but is this enough to even start recovery? I don't think so.

The other point is the affect he has on me. Will I be strong enough to hold my ground if we start interacting? I know SH would protect me but I need to be sure I can do this myself and right now I can't. So right now I feel my best bet is to stay away from him.

Not a great plan...

I think, based on what you have described here, that it might be best to stay in PB.

I'll bet money that SH did not advise your WH that the next step would be to pressure you to let your Plan B guard down and "see how it feels".

Let WH work it our with SH.
You will know when WH's attitude has turned a corner when he follows a PLAN that SH has laid out and stops putting the burden on your shoulders.

Plan B works well for you!

May I suggest the following:

"Do whatever SH advises 100% and to the letter. Please, do not come at me proposing any shortcuts. Good-bye."




Wait for this:

"I will do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes, to make things right."


..... And then, WH religiously follows the Plans.

Also, stay away from WH right after the OW breakup. You do not want to witness WH's withdrawal. It will only 'pizza' you off.

Pepper, Scotty, Caracal - thanks for all the good advice.

This is exactly what I will do! He put himself in this mess, he should be smart enough to get out of it.

Hi estrela,

What you describe is typical and it is not enough to start recovery IMO. I was married to a serial cheater as well (we are now divorced) and I advise you to watch and wait. If WH acts like a child or makes decisions based on what's in it for him...well forget that. Stay in your Plan B and educate yourself about Plan D should it come to that. If you go Plan D, you will survive that too but don't take back a weak man who will wear you into the ground once again.

Stay well.

Thanks, black raven. I tried to find your thread/story but couldn't. Did you go through FR before deciding on D?

I am not yet back to Plan B, so I saw WH before I left to a meditation retreat and when I came back. He made his case both times. He said that he would do anything I ask him to, he wants to follow the plans, do whatever it takes.

So far, other than breaking up with OW, he has not done much. I am thinking in writing him with Pep's suggestion (writing makes things more clear):
"Do whatever SH advises 100% and to the letter. Please, do not come at me proposing any shortcuts. Good-bye."
and maybe start working on my list of requirements...

Read these also so you are educated on a False Recovery so you can avoid them. A false recovery can be more painful than a Dday.

I hope it helps.
False Recovery-voices of experience
False Recovery

I did not have a FR...I had an entirely new A/OW. I don't really have a thread. I found MB three months after Dday #1 in spring 08...the affair was already dead. Dday#2 was May 2010...a new OW. That pretty much killed the marriage for good which was already on life support from #1. My ex's thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370718&page=1

I'd appreciate it if you or others did not revive that thread by posting but read away. My ex promised to do whatever it takes too...yet he was still lying when he made those posts and I knew this; claimed A#2 was never a PA and it was. ExWH did make some efforts but it was too little too late and was usually short lived before blameshifting started again and I was done...too much damage.

Today we hardly speak unless it about the children and finances. Most contact is via email. D was the best solution for me.

Thank you, black raven. Sorry if reviving your pain. I am just trying to learn from my past mistakes and other' stories. I do not want to go through another FR.

No pain being revived here so no worries, estrela. I haven't posted much in the last year due to dealing with D stuff and also needing a break but I'm good.

Brain Hurts - thanks for the links. I read them before but now it felt so relevant.

I want to tell WH, as suggested by Pep:
"Do whatever SH advises 100% and to the letter. Please, do not come at me proposing any shortcuts. Good-bye."

I haven't tell him yet. I just got a text from him asking to have dinner this week.

Question: should I go to dinner and then present my list of conditions and say I need to see significant actions from him before considering R, or should I text him back the sentence above and leave it at that.

I do not want to be guided by fear, but my instincts are still pretty much on alert.

This is my list of requirements so far. Thanks SMB!
any edits?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REQUIREMENTS TO START RECOVERY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Humility
Remorse
Surrender emotionally before me and spiritually before God
Authentic repentance
Owns his choices and the consequences they caused (to himself, me, children, extended family, friends, etc.)
Apology for the A and his hurtful actions before and after
Confession & apology to children
Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him
MB counseling and online program � follow MB principles
NC Letter/ NC Plan
Provide all cell phone & credit card records � complete honesty and transparency � password access
Phone access/ swapping at request
Complete radical honesty about our entire history together - polygraph
UA 15+ hours together weekly
POJA
Erase all e-mails of OWs/ throw away pictures of trips together (even if OW is not in the picture)
No IBs
Clean or delete FB account
No overnight travel by self
No nights out without me
Actions, not words
Signed agreement stating will remain faithful while married to me

I sent a text message to WH last night saying that he should do 100% what SH tells him. No shortcuts. That I needed actions from him, not words.
I guess he took that as I was ready to start R and called me today asking when he could come and talk about us starting the plan together. Or if I wanted to have dinner instead.
I told him I am not ready to do anything together.
He asked if I changed my mind since my text, and I said that my idea is that he could start the process by himself (since I am not ready to join) and once I see his efforts I might change my position.
He told me he does not see the point of him starting by himself and is waiting for me to decide to start it together.
So again, he put the burden on my side to call him later and tell him what I decide.
I know I might regret this one day (not trying to recover my M) but just to think of starting to open up with him now gives me physical fear. I will not force myself into R, even less into FR.
Appreciate input and advice!

Mornin' estrela

Your WH is not serious about R. Leave the burden on him...his cheap words and inaction say a lot. Stay away from him.

He's not interested in doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do; he wants to know what's in it for him to do the right thing instead.

I'd go completely dark on him, with no feedback. His heart has not changed yet and until it does, you're going to have that queasy feeling in your gut telling you he is not safe, nor is he changed sufficient to protect you from ever putting you through this again.

Your gut may not be able to tell you WHY it's not safe; it's just telling you that he hasn't changed. Not really.