And what did Dr. Harley say?

he told me to stop bring up the A's. 2x. it was pretty funny he said "stop doing it!"

i agree with that but you have to know what you are dealing with before, but thats my opinion.

i dont know how to quote him on this thread.

Dr. Harley knows he was trickle truthing you?

Do you mind copy and pasting what he says?

here is one. yes he knows i guess, we were on the radio show, coached with jennifer and are doing the online coaching.


"You already know what I'm going to say. You must simply stop talking about your husband's affairs. There should be complete transparency in your lives, where you always know where each other are, and what you are doing; the conditions that made his affairs possible must be eliminated; and you must have a romantic relationship, where you are meeting each other's most important emotional needs every week. If you achieve those three objectives, your marriage will turn out great. But if you keep bringing up his affairs, your relationship will suffer greatly. Stop doing it!"

and this

More information about his affairs will not help you avoid them in the future or help you make a decision as to whether or not you will stay with him. The decision has been made, and the plan you are following is appropriate regardless of how much new information you would receive. Resist the temptation to resurrect the past, and your future will be much brighter.

so i get it, but i am just not happy with that answer at this time, its more of a stubbon thing for me now i guess. IDK

chickadee, like others I am rather surprised that Dr Harley said this about a new OW. (I have read your posts in the private forum.) I fully understand why he says this when the major details of a known affair have been revealed, but I'm puzzled why he says this when a new OW pops out of the woodwork.

Except...

Perhaps Dr H understands from you and your H that these affairs were in far flung places with women who were just passing by. They were not with your neighbours, his current work colleagues or your sister. You are not living next door to some unknown OW, nor meeting her for coffee, nor letting her clean your house. You don't know these women and never did.

Could that be why he says what he says? Is that why he says that new information will not affect your course of action, but will only make you even more unhappy?

Thanks for sharing.

Does Dr. H know that these are OW you never knew about? So a new OW persay?

Steve has said that the BS can be the biggest wall to their own recovery.

So I guess I ask, do you not trust the MB program and/or Dr. Harley's advice?

[quote=BrainHurtsThanks for sharing.

Does Dr. H know that these are OW you never knew about? So a new OW persay?

Steve has said that the BS can be the biggest wall to their own recovery.

So I guess I ask, do you not trust the MB program and/or Dr. Harley's advice? [/quote]

it not that i didnt know that there was this OW- its that fact that on the "list" he wasnt clear about the extent of it and in december he failed again to tell me all, i totally trust the program. but i also thing he said when you know all there is to know than drop it. so when i drop it and more crap come out i am not ok with that.

i was puzzled also, you may have a point and may be right, that makes sense to me. but its hard to do.

and now the point i guess i am trying to force onto H is that if he cant even come clean with himself he will never be with me. IDK

its all emotionally draining.

This is very emotionally draining and that's why some suffer from PTSD.

How is your LB balance?

Are you on some ADs?

chickadee, I was never very clear when I read your post to Dr H whether this was the discovery of an entirely new OW. I found it hard to follow what you were writing. In your post to Dr H, you said something about a "4th" woman. (I don't want to quote your private post without your permission.)

Now the above post does not make it any clearer.

Was this a brand new woman that you knew nothing about?

OR

Was this a woman that you knew something about, but you thought was a ONS, and now you have found out that she wasn't? She was a longer relationship?

i laugh but i probably totally have PTSD.

i guess that prob part of the problem my balance was in the neg for so many years and i didnt realize. then after this all came out it was rock bottom, its creaping up but slowly but these things knock it down very far so all that gain is gone.

my counselor who we each see one on one and then together- comment that i just dont look happy. she is pro MB and doesnt psycho anaylize. if she werent my counselor i would have a glass of wine with her.- so i guess my balance is lower than i thought

i also know i am not the person that can turn happy, sad, mad on and off and things take a while to settle for me.

but i also think that i am guarded beacuse of whats been going on.

sorry i was unclear and sugar you can post to me on any thread, i value your insight.

this occurance with this woman was on his famous list he gave me last year. it was listed as no name woman at bar in nyc.

in december his calendar reminder came up with a name. so when i asked him who it was he said no body.

i did get a few names 3-4) on the list that may- alot were unnamed skanhos.

what i meant by 4th woman was- that i knew that 3 of then were more than just ONS and that H needed to be clear on what the details were with them, so H wrote down 3 names and this new name was one of the 3.

i knew he saw A B & C more than a few times, H wrote B, C & D on his list.

so know i have A,B,C & D.

i probably just totally baffled you, sorry.

So she's not a completely new woman?

That must be why Dr H felt that knowing more was not helpful to you. If she were a completely new woman, you would need to know who she is so that you could protect yourself from her.

If she were a completely new woman, then it would mean that your H had lied to you about the number of women, and that would be a whole extra problem.

Neither of the above is true, and so what you are finding out is more detail.

Dr Harley's telling you not to dig for more detail is entirely in line with his advice not to talk about the affair again, and he's right about that. Talking about it just brings the horror of the affair to the forefront of your interactions and ruins your relationship for the day.

NOT talking about it ever again, and doing quality UA things as specified, makes your relationship happier. I've lived this and I know it to be true.

Just a wild guess, but I'm thinking with every caveat added Dr. Harley will still say "Stop talking about his affairs."

Chickadee. When I found MB I was stuck at the same point that you are now. MB taught me how to look and live "forward."

Is your DH still the same man that was a serial cheater or has he become someone who now protects you and the marriage? That is what you want to look at...his actions now. It is a choice to start to look forward and not continually back.

I know its not as easy as it sounds...you can do it.

(((hugs)))

Chickadee,

SMB has always known it's OK to ask me questions about my adultery, right from the begining of recovery. (I agreed to it before we even began recovery, it was a requirement) It doesn't withdraw LB units either. She is safe and respectful about it and never uses it to harm me in any way.... she just has a question come up in her mind over and over again and then needs to ask because it drains her LB when she holds that nagging question inside. She does work hard not to bring things up, but when she's losing love for me by keeping a question inside, it's detrimental to our marriage and needs to be asked/discussed.

It's really about perspective.
A WS that is willing to do whatever it takes to recover their marriage doesn't draw a line in the sand and say, "don't ask me any more questions"!
And a BS that is willing to do whatever it takes to recover their marriage doesn't settle for less than all the truths about their life, otherwise they are just a doormat.

Nobody has a right to ask you to settle for less than all the truths about your history and your life.

IMO, a genuine recovery cannot even begin without the truths you need. Once you have all the truth, the wounds can begin to heal and you can rest. But YOU get to choose when enough is enough regarding your history and your life.

I want you to find peace, but not at the expense of settling for less than you deserve.

It's a big whenever a FWS resists answering questions about past, present or future.

TST,

As a BH, this is what I can tell you about bringing up the A; it can put me back to day 1 right then and there.

My wife can spend an hour telling me about walking ten feet because everything she does she remembers and recounts in great detail, and yet when I had asked about details of conversations of text messages or conversations?


"Oh, just stuff..."




Now, it's only a smidge over two years here... but here's the thing - I really don't care about those missing details any more.


Chica - YOU have gotta figure it out. You are keeping your recovery at the point it is just as much as your husband is. I know, I fretted and flamed over every detail, too.


Did it help?


You know what? No, it didn't... AT ALL.


The first year was a toss away.

Pick that weight up and walk with it, move with it.

It's time to quit dragging it.


Carry it... or cut it loose.

sugar- technically she is not a new woman- but in the begining she was an occurance on a list, then a name, then a realtionship (or whatever) but he did lie to me about the extent of the occurance.

thing is i never brought it up, it started bc he didnt delete it on his calendar- dumb for not checking that all the remnants were taken care of.

poker- he is different, completely. and i am getting to know him everyday

tst- H never tells me "dont ask" at all- i know its hard for him shame and guilt are a killer, i agree and i was doing what you wife was doing and it become worse when i say nothing.

i know he doesnt remember alot about much, but i think its a communication issue- if i ask, who is the calendar girl, H should say well chick she was one of the occurances on the list and we went out 5 times. no he said shes nobody.

did you have lunch today? yes
did you go out? yes with the guys.

see only enough to get by.

H knows it should go like this..

did you have lunch today? yes, i went with the guys to xyz, we talked aboout work.

he struggles with that especially if its something that would hurt me. i get that he thinks its too much damage already, but thats for me to judge.

the funny (NOT) part is that i didnt even bring it up!

"I want you to find peace, but not at the expense of settling for less than you deserve."

i agree with your post TST-this is the way i feel also- i have a great opportunity to have a M that is fulfilling.

HHH- the little deatils are just that, its the big ones that get left out that get me.

i want this to be over - i wanted that a year ago, if he had told me it all we would be done. but now its the fact that he also has to be honest with himself and not sweep it under the rug, so to speak.

I think your quote is something that i will give to H to read..."it is only by valuing your integrity enough to admit your errors that any real pride is found or the admiration of anyone who�s opinion is worth a damn gained." --- i have said similar to H. i think this is why some of our problems occur.

hard to verbalize and type.

we are off to an exicitng weekend- we are going on a sailing trip for 3 days and it should be an adventure- something i would have said no to before (RC) cold, wet, long. but i have packed well and have a good book. i hope i dont throw him over!

the book is "lets pretend this never happened"- title sold me, not something i would normally read- a bit sick and demented humor- lots of texas animal stories for ya'll but a bit edgey- read the review if you are conservative.

thank you for all of you advice and keep it coming.

I so agree with this. I dragged my marriage through hell and back by bringing the affair up over and over again. Every single time it came to mind, I would start grilling my husband again. By bringing it up like that, I kept myself in a state of rage and kept him miserable. This went on for about 3 years. When I stopped talking about the affair and focused on making my marriage great is when my marriage changed.

I have seen many other marriages change in a positive way by avoiding any talk of the affair. marriedforever brought the affair up for years and kept herself in turmoil. Dr Harley told her to knock it off. I noticed a few months later that she and her husband had made a dramatic leap forward in their marriage. I believe it was because she stopped bringing it up. She was happier and her marriage was much better off.

I have a really good book that discusses this concept called "One Nation Under Therapy" by Dr Sally Satel. In it, she reviews studies that show that survivors of traumatic events actually do better when they don't go to counseling, because talking about it keeps the client depressed and angry much longer. This was my personal experience when my son was killed. I avoided counseling like a plague, because it just kept me embroiled in my gried.

In the context of everyday conversation, try reframing your questions to him. I'm guilty of his types of responses, and have plenty of (male) co-workers that do the same.

You ask a specific question, you get a specific answer.

Instead of "Did you have lunch today?" say "So what did you do for lunch today?" [he then gives his response] "Oh, so how'd that go?" or "Oh, so what'd you think of that?"

Ask more vague or open-ended questions.

The above applies, of course, to non-affair related questions. Those affair questions need to be nailed down and wrapped up as soon as possible so that you can both quit picking at the scab.