NLC, do you know if your husband is going through Anger Busters? What is he doing? Do you have any idea?

Be careful that:
1) you are not projecting your hopes and feelings onto your DH. Perhaps YOU would want to chagne if you were that bad off. or YOU would not want to be like that. BVut you don't really know about your DH.

2) you are not projecting your idea that DH wants to bless people. Maybe DH wants to look good in other people's eyes by doing things that make him look like a "Good Guy". Acting like the hero to outsiders and treating insiders like crap is classic Narrcissim.

Yes, Dh is going through Anger Busters. He has also been getting good advice from Dr. Harley.

How do you know this if you're in Plan B?

What is Dr. Harley telling him?

Is this another trick question?

Dr Harley has him reading LB.

I still don't get what I'm supposed to do with his AB assignments. How is he supposed to complete his AB stuff if he can't send me the emails AB tells him to?

I didn't know if he was coaching with Steve Harley or emailing with Dr. Harley.

Why can't he send the assignments to your IM?

And then what? IM isn't supposed to forward them. So how does that achieve anything? I'm not being snarky. I'm asking if he's supposed to do anger management and AB says do ___ how is he supposed to do that and get the feedback he needs to progress?

Has he accepted all the conditions you are requiring for recovery? If he has, I don't think you have to stay in plan B...but you should continue to live seperately until he can demonstrate control over himself. But he would need to accept all the conditions in you plan B addendum AND follow the procedure you set out (to contact you through your IM). If he's not willing to do that, then he isn't ready, and it's up to him to figure out the problem of anger busters assignments, not your problem.

See, the ultimate goal is for him to accept responsibility for his actions and change the behaviors that make the relationship unsafe for you and the children, right? Once he's willing to make the first steps, and follow the procedure you outlined (therefore demonstrating that he's not trying to continue controlling you), you can resume contact. But you should keep it limited to safe situations.

In SAA, Dr. Harley says the BS can end Plan B even if the WS is still having contact with the AP, so long as there is the willingness and the WS wants BS's participation in ending contact for life. Also in the anger management Q&A, he doesn't say you have to have no contact for a year, just that you should live seperately until the spouse with the problem has demonstrated control over it. BUT, and this is key, especially in your situation, the spouse with the problem needs to follow exactly the steps that the other spouse lays out in the plan b letter/addendum. If not, they are still trying to control the situation and don't demonstrate a willingness to have a safe marriage.

So...is he using the IM? Is he still trying to control the situation, or giving you the power over your choice to continue the relationship on your own terms? Has he expressed through your IM a willingness to do whatever it takes, including the requirements you've already lain out, to recover your marriage?

He needs to get feedback from Anger Busters, not you. You need to be protected from him. He doesn't need your help to get his anger under control.

"Has he accepted all the conditions you are requiring for recovery? If he has, I don't think you have to stay in plan B...but you should continue to live seperately until he can demonstrate control over himself. But he would need to accept all the conditions in you plan B addendum AND follow the procedure you set"

Jennifer, in the case of abusers, Harley recommends a dark Plan B for at least a year, until they have successfully completed an anger management course and demonstrated safe behavior for at least a year.

This is much more critical with an abuser because there is much more on the line. Apparently, there is some limited contact that is being supervised by Dr Harley. That is how it should remain. Her husband is reading her posts here and doing his best to control the situation, we should help her stay as dark as possible.

Thanks MelodyLane, I most certainly don't want to be giving out incorrect information (especially to victims of abuse). But I went back and reread the Q&A about abuse, and I can't find the part about a dark plan B for a year. Can you tell me where it is? Or maybe it was on the radio program? In the Q&A he talks about recommending separation for a year, but also talks about the couple slowly increasing time together, including overnights, on a schedule that is comfortable for the victim spouse. But maybe there is some more recent info in the radio programs? I hope I'm not seeming too dense here, I'm very open to being shown the MB way of dealing with an abusive relationship!

(And I definitely agree if her husband is reading her posts, first shame on him, second, she needs extra protection).

This lady was told to go into Plan B because her husband is emotionally and physically abusive. And Plan B is dark or it is not really plan b at all. In her case, her husband has been very emotionally abusive, which is why she is separated from him in the first place. There is some minimal contact being conducted via Dr Harley, but he is qualified to oversee such contact.

Plan B is vacated once the danger is eliminated. Her WS has barely even begun anger management so the danger is still there. He has not changed, in other words.

The reason she should be in Plan B is because he is abusive and it takes at least a year to really change. Even though he might agree to her conditions, that does not mean he has successfully overcome his anger problem.

Jennifervoyager,

Here are some radio clips where Dr. Harley tells her to remain seperated from her abusive Husband until he gets help for at least a year.

Radio clip on seperation when physical abuse is an issue
Segment #2
Segment #3

Here is the big difference between an affair and an abusive situation. When a BS ends Plan B, it is with the committment to end the affair. NOW. Not later. For example, the BS would help the WS write the no contact letter and end the affair. Not in a few weeks, but NOW. Otherwise, she stays in Plan B. The abuse ends NOW or she doesn't come out of Plan B.

In this case, the abuse is not going to end until he has gone through anger management and learned to change his behavior. So does she come out of Plan B and endure his abuse for months as he slowly learns to change his behavior? My point is that this is very different from an affair in that it takes much longer to change one's behavior than it does to end an affair. It takes much more than a committment, but an end to the abuse.

As far as Harley recommmending Plan B in abusive situations, that is pretty routine. In her case, she decided to go into Plan B and if she breaks it, it needs to be under Dr Harley's supervision, not ours. This is a very serious situation and she needs to be careful if this marriage is going to make it.

I'm tired today.

NLAC - I'm sorry you're tired. You ok?

Jennifer, why is it bad for dh to read my posts?

We are making our way through LB, very slowly. It is very emotional and that is exhausting! Dh seems sincerely motivated to find a way for us to be happy together. He is struggling because of something I'd like input on.

I have asked friends for prayer about our separation. I've told some that dh has an anger problem and he's getting help to learn to live without anger. It really upsets dh that I've talked to our friends about this. He feels that I've taken away his friends. He says they aren't calling to get his side of the story. He feels they are just taking my word for it, etc. He feels very victimized and betrayed by me and our friends.

Until this year, I had not told our friends that we had issues. I told his parents. I told our friends at this time because I wanted prayer and I wanted them to reach our to him and encourage him. I suppose they haven't reached out enough, I don't know.

Honestly, I find parts of this frustrating and I feel like he is more concerned with what others think of him than our family. He says he can see why I would think that, but he also is concerned that he will never be able to trust me again because I am so indiscreet.

I can see that this makes him unhappy. I have asked if we can have a way for me to get spiritual encouragement from ladies that I know, but he doesn't.

Thoughts?

NLC, Dr. Harley would say that until his abuse stops, you absolutely need support and need to be able to talk about his abuse. Dr. H does not recommend talking about every marital situation against your spouse's will, but in cases of abuse, addiction, infidelity it is for the safety of the abused spouse to reveal what is going on.

Dr. Harley's position is that we would all be better people if what we did were known, instead of being able to do evil things in secret.

Check out John 3:20:

http://bible.cc/john/3-20.htm

Your husband doesn't want his deeds of anger exposed to the light of day. It's that simple, and he'll come up with all kinds of reasons why you are wrong, but the problem is not YOU, the problem is his angry outbursts!

As far as his side of the story, if he is having angry outbursts (and he is), then his side of the story doesn't change anything! Nobody can make him have an angry outburst. He is the cause of that, and until he understands and agrees with this, he cannot overcome his anger, because that is the very first step. What could his side of the story possibly be that would justify an angry outburst on his part? Did you put the toilet paper on wrong or roll up the toothpaste tube a way he did not like? If so, we'll all laugh. Did you spend money he did not want spent, did you wreck the car, did you say disrespectful things to him? These are all rhetorical questions; the point is that no matter what his complaint might be about you, he should handle it without an angry outburst.

Besides, if he wants to "tell his side," what's stopping him from doing that? Surely he knows how to use the telephone or email.

Until he overcomes angry outbursts, please don't have discussions with him about keeping those angry outbursts secret. You need support, and he needs accountability.

One final comment: are you in Plan B still, or not? In Plan B, you shouldn't be having these discussions with him, and you don't make these decisions jointly. In Plan B you are protecting yourself from emotional manipulation like this, where he tries to guilt you into distraction and worrying about whether you were wrong to tell people what he was doing, instead of him dealing with the real problem, which is of his doing.

Agree with Markos.

NLC, he should not trust you to be discreet. If he doesn't want his nasty, mean behavior broadcast, he should change his behavior. He is the one who needs to change, not you. The more people who know about his bad behavior, the more people to hold him accountable. He needs to man up and change his behavior. If he doesn't want people knowing about it, he should stop it. The fact that he says he wants to get "his side" of the story out there tells me he wants to spin the truth. There is only one side to the truth, not several "sides." But nothing is stopping him from telling "his side."


You don't need his permission to tell others, NLC. The policy of joint agreement does not apply in abusive situations. The more people you tell, the better. The more people to hold him accountable and the more people to give you support. He doesn't like it, well tough.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
John 3:20-21.