He is digging heels on the house. Why are you threatening to kick him out of his house? You said it was his house...for how long? You've been married three years, how long has he owned it, are you on the deed/mortgage/lease?

You SEPARATE.

Not throw him out of the place he was when you found him. You leave, if it was his place you moved your poor kids into.

Loved your thread, CWMI. I could relate to so many of your anecdotes! The blame-shifting, calling things LBs that aren't, wanting what he wants when he wants it - my feelings be d*mned. Saying I'm the one with the problem, he's being controlled, I "always get my way," all of it! Sheesh, did they all go to the same freaking school: Alaboutme U.?

Yes, Anger Management is a must. He's doing some research. Parenting Plan is a must. We're working on it daily.

You didn't separate, did you? I read your first 25 pages and the last 6 (whew!). Probably missed stuff, will return & finish.

Actually, it's my house. Bought it before I met him, all by myself. His name's not on anything.

Okay. i misunderstood somethin you said earlier, and thought it was his house you all lived in. Is there legal separation where you are?

We never separated. It was TOUGH. We have three children together, or I would not have worked so hard. I did not want to be a single parent (and you read my solution to that, right? Fine, leave, YOU get custody. He didn't want to be single parent, either. Threatened to divorce the mother of his kids, didn't want to take the kids? Justify that, mfer! Lol. )

I would not have married him if I didn't mean forever. But I didn't mean 'whatever' either. I was very persistent, without making every day a "let's talk about our relationship!" day, kwim? Common complaints could be expressed simply by leaving the room, pleasantly, Not gonna hang out for it!

This part blows my mind...we have completely different goals in parenting AND he does not have the children's best interest in mind. His goals are "control them, they must obey." Mine are, "Develop their minds, emotions, and skills so they'll be adults who contribute good things to the world." He is big on getting "respect," not realizing that respect is usually earned, not demanded.

He thinks forgetting to hang a backpack is "disrespectful." He takes it as a personal affront to his "authority," (his words, not mine). Then he IBs by hiding the backpack, and my son was late to school looking for it.

He treats his daughter that way, too. He's actually told me, "If I tell DD not to do something (like drink, have sex, etc), she'll obey. She won't do it." Really? She's 17, get real. And he conveniently forgets that she's already been in trouble for drugs and has a bad-boy boyfriend who's been suspended multiple times for fighting in school, and who smokes, does pot, and drinks (info from mom-friends who see him when we're not around). It's great that he has so much control over her. (sarcasm)

We did discuss a parenting plan. Started with Goals, then Proven Methods for Effective Behavior Change, then talked specific scenarios, keeping those goals & methods as our guide. He seemed to buy in, though kept falling back to the "disrespectful" "must obey" stuff. We wrote it all down, etc, but I still don't have the gut-level sense that he really agrees. Control is really important to him in work, parenting, driving, punctuality, everything.

We'll see.

Yes.



Me too. And when the promises of care & safety are violated over and over, then it's pretty tough to stick around ...I'm sure you're familiar.

Is this your first marriage? Your footnote leads me to believe it's your 2nd, is that right?

How was your H pre-marriage?

I'm encouraging AM classes. Wonder if this should be a condition of continuing to work on the M? Hm, probably.

I would make it a condition.

OK, good thought. I'll bring this up tomorrow.

Thanks.

My WH and I both had anger problems. Until we fixed that, our M wasn't going to heal and we also have a blended family.

If we don't POJA the discipline then we don't do it.

All I have to say now is " if we don't enthusiastically agree we don't do it"

I can only change me and how I react to him. One thing for sure was I knew how to "push his buttons" which was very unhealthy. I had to stop that. I would just exit the room with no abusive remarks.

It is both of our 2nds.

Before marriage, I would say my H was fantastic. In one of my threads (I ended up witth quite a few...) I talked about that, and why I thought that. He is a salesman, and he sold me, by mirroring. Everything I liked, he liked. Everything I wanted, he wanted. Marriage was perfect for two people so perfect for each other! So I thought...

I didn't really understand the technique until I took a short-term job in sales. Everything kind of came together for me after years of fighting, learning about mirroring and gaslighting and going hey, wait a dam minute! That was followed by a few years of roller coasters, rock bottom, elated highs, rough times, and eventually comfort and random periods of ecstacy.

I would NOT have done that with a man who I did not have children with.

My 1st ended after physical abuse, RO, and I put him in jail 6x for violating the RO. My oldest son, the only one of my 4 children who is not biologically H's, was concieved in the time period between marriages (which was five years). His father is still in his life, and H and I have an amicable relationship with the dad. He lives two states away. I don't know if that is relevant to you. My son's father and I never lived together. We tried to, but when we were looking at places to rent, he told me that if I was going to be with him I would need to lower my standards, and I believed him. And dumped him, pregnant, and rented my own place that met my standards. Lol. I wish all people would be so unintentionally poignantly honest.

OMFG!(that's "freaking") That's exactly what happened to me. He seriously played chameleon and started liking everything I liked, wanting everything I wanted, etc. Funny how that doesn't last.....

And even though we don't have children together, I still have incentive to try:

1. I made a commitment (not 'unconditional' but not tossed aside lightly, either)
2. Stability - financial, relational etc. Somehow I have way more friends married than I had single. Sucks, but it's true. I don't know if people trust married people more or what. Also, I make good money, but it's nice not to have to 'watch it' all the time.
3. Someone 'has my back' - like helping run errands, fixing stuff around the house, etc.
4. Getting divorced is a pain in the *ss. Who gets the symphony season tickets? Who gets the convertible? Will we seriously split up the china/crystal? etc.
5. I don't want to fail again. That would suck, even though I know it's not 'my fault'

Good strategy. Good that you both recognized it and agree to POJA.

We're getting there! We finalized our parenting plan today & I think we're in a pretty good place. Now, to implement it.

Giving credit where credit is due today:

My H sat down with me and we finalized our Parenting Plan - woohoo! I feel really good about the plan, and about the boundaries we set. We highlighted some examples of recent stressful events and talked through the goals, problems, tactics and step-by-step instructions. I am very, very encouraged.

Also, he (on his own) researched AM classes, emailed an instructor and got scheduling and pricing information. There's a 10 week course for $400 in our area. He was thinking of doing the online version for $65, but I said that this is such a serious issue that I'd rather he attend a "real class" rather than push buttons to get through some material online. He's going to go, which also encourages me very much. (Bonus! Maybe he'll meet some cool local convicts & get some sweet neck tattoo ideas, huh?)

I told him I'm impressed, that I am really looking forward to a long, happy life with him, and I'm glad we're making progress.

Then I did something I haven't wanted to do in a long time: I hugged and kissed him really nicely. I told him he's been a "good boy today," to which he replied, "you've been a bad girl." (which means he's turned on, so that's a good thing)

I'm trying to keep it steady, wait and gauge our progress. But I can't help rejoicing over this turn of events. I have hope today.

...maybe Steve should go out of town more often, huh? (kidding!)

LOL @ neck tattoos.

Follow through. That's all I can say; follow through.


Some of this may be, as stated, your H shifting from withdrawal into conflict - and (even better) his cooperative attitude could be signs of peaks into a state of intimacy.

Z, keep your side of the street as clean as you can and watch the results!

Yes, always.

I will note that HIS choices will be the most critical component of our success. And I will HAPPILY give him all the credit when it happens.

Will they, Z?


This is a marriage. It's 50/50. 2 become 1 flesh.

You have a load to carry in this, and YOUR choices, YOUR actions contribute to the over all health of the marriage.

This will become more apparent when your marital state shifts from withdrawal, to conflict, to intimacy.

If you base your success on his choices, you set yourself up for much frustration and feelings of failure, my friend. Whose life are you talking about? Isn't it yours?

Your choices are crucial. I love talking about stuff, but I'm a girl. Please limit your planning exercises to once a week, and enjoy the rest of your lives together. You exhaust me, and I LIKE planning and analyzing. It is my favorite activity. It often gets in my way of actually doing anything. Go have fun!

With all due respect, I have been living by the MB principles this entire time. I'm not the one blowing up with abusive behavior, getting ready to go to AM classes, disagreeing with the POJA, bucking against living by it, etc. HIS improvement and choices will be what makes us successful, because they are light-years further from "good marriage behavior" than mine. This is why I said he'll get the credit - he was further to go.

I cannot do his job. I can only do mine, and I have been doing it. That's the reason I called Steve, the reason I have written to the radio show multiple times, the reason I've read every Harley book multiple times. There is responsibility on BOTH SIDES....one of us has not been doing "his" job.

As I've done AM research, the lightbulb has gone on for me: it is impossible for someone with Anger issues to live by MB concepts, because they are full of anger and blame. The Anger Busters director says, "I can't work on a marital relationship with a rager right away. He's not ready until he's willing to be wrong, accept blame, let go of his anger/narcissism, etc."

...And I might add that Steve told us to "record ourselves as often as possible." He said (wisely) when H was angry about being recorded surreptitiously - "so H, if you had KNOWN you were being recorded, you would have done something differently? Then what WERE you saying/doing? I mean, you should be interacting according to your job REGARDLESS of whether you are being recorded, right?" Whoa, quick backpedal from H! "Of course I am behaving properly whether I'm being recorded or not."

Whew.

And furthermore, when I heard Friday's radio program, where a woman (Brittany) said all she had to do was talk to her H about a problem. He immediately "apologized" and they fixed the problem. I was blown away!!!

This has not been my experience with my H. When I bring up problems - however carefully stated, absolutely without LBs - he gets p*ssed off that I even mentioned anything. Empathy is not his forte.

Please note that H's definition of "honesty" is he only wants to hear Positive Things! (this is on his EN questionnaire). Seriously? Steve called him on that last week as well....that he doesn't want to hear anything unless it's wonderful. H isn't ready to receive real information that would be helpful to this marriage.

Not my problem, can't fix it. He will have to either do it or not.