Z,
Remember that we're talking about deprogramming,engrained behaviors. Some individuals take longer than others to make changes.

Many men fall into the trap of getting defensive when their wives complain. I remember when my wife and I started practicing MB principles, I was enthusiastic about creating a great marriage. Part of the changes I had to make was to stop taking my wife's complaints as a personal attack, getting defensive, and throwing it in her face what she was doing wrong. In the beginning, we'd have good days and other days we'd be screaming at each other. Now I can't even remember the last time my wife and I raised our voices to each other. I'm at a place now where if my wife expresses a complaint, I respond with an apology and a restatement of the complaint that I'm hearing her say. And then I don't repeat X action that upsets her.

My wife, on the other hand, had to work on expressing one complaint at a time rather than bottling stuff up for weeks and throwing a ton of stuff at me at one time. Well, that and not approaching me in an angry, disrespectful manner. Years ago a complaint from her would typically start with her saying "would you stop being a fu#@ing a..hole?!" And then follow it up with a string of complaints along with other choice words.

It takes a lot of work and practice. And it certainly doesn't happen overnight or even in a short few weeks.

Today I'm very thankful that we don't have those wonderful days where we'd start screaming at each other during car rides with me getting out of the car, my wife driving off, and me having to walk miles home.

Well said, KT. This is so true. I have noticed that my husband has adjusted to hearing complaints much better than me. He listens respectfully and then agrees to stop doing it/start doing it. I still catch myself going into defense mode and have to stop and remind myself that complaints are good for marriage.

Wow, KT, that's awesome! Thanks for the encouragement. What turned it around for you?

^


You see this lady here, Z?


Look what she said!

What's your point, HHH?

Found some inspiring quotes today:

"The measure of success is not whether you have a tough problem to deal with, but whether it is the same problem you had last year." - John Foster Dulles

"Wisdom is knowing what to do next; virtue is doing it." - David Starr Jordan

Well... I think you've been here longer than me... so...


read a lot of what/how Mel posts?


Pretty straight-to-the-point most of the time. A lot of people react like it's a "holier-than-thou" spiel.

But... it's not!


When she brings up her own experience, she has a lot of mistakes and misconceptions that she owns right up to. CWMI is coming with a lot of that lately, too!


These are both very strong, intelligent women who have learned that utilizing MB and measuring their own contributions to the state of their marriage does not threaten their strength, dignity, integrity, or intelligence.


Dunno... don't really have a point... just kind of in awe some times...

I just wanted to say that I read all the way through your thread and empathize with your situation. The way you have described your feelings are much like how I feel, and the way you describe your H is much how I would describe mine (minus the anger issue).

I hope there is light at the end of the tunnel! I am starting back at MB again...starting right now.

Z, just a note on complaining and your H's desire to only hear positive things:

You can do that! And it is surprisingly effective. I can help you. Just think of some complaint you have, and what you would like instead of whatever he is or is not doing. Like intimate conversation...you complained that you don't have intimate conversations. But you had one the other night. So next time you feel like complaining about NOT having intimate conversations, talk positively about that one.

Instead of saying: We don't talk enough. I don't feel close to you when we don't have deep conversations. Why don't you ever want to talk with me? (negative, negative, negative!)

Say: I was just thinking about that night we talked about nature vs. nurture. I loved that night! I felt so close to you. I love it when you talk with me like that. Want chicken for dinner?

If you want an exercise, write out your top five most common complaints, and find positive ways to encourage what you want instead. Reframe the conversation, give the man something positive to build on. It's not going to hurt you. And like I said, it is an effective way to complain without complaining.

My husband annoys me by rearranging the dishwasher while I am loading it. I used to respond by telling him he was annoying the crap out of me and if he kept it up, I was going to leave the task to him. Game on! Why can't I just learn how to load, etc, why do you have to tell me how to do everything, yuk. Now he pretty much leaves me to it, or he does it and I leave him to it, but on those occasions when we forget what a battleground the dishwasher can be, I can smile sweetly and say, "I really love it when you let me finish cleaning up and you go relax after working so hard all day." He knows it means he's annoying me. But isn't it nicer? Lol.

CWMI and Triple H, Of course Mel (but she gets enough of that).

You both are awesome. I'm just saying.

Thanks Gdar! Welcome back, and I'm sure there's light at the end of the tunnel!

I've read a little of your thread, I'll work through it. We can encourage each other as we go

Good idea, CWMI. Marriages with potential would really benefit from that advice.

I'm not sure how effective it will be to reframe some of his abusive behaviors (annoying is one thing, abusive is another, e.g. "I love it when you don't yell at and threaten me and the kids. It makes me feel so safe and cared for." Wha??) Seriously though, I get it when it's about an EN.

Our biggest block to progress right now is his anger and abuse/control. That's why we've been going round and round for 1 1/2 years now with nothing to show for it - this has been a HUGE lightbulb for me. Once he overcomes this issue, we will be able to work together on MB principles. Kinda like an alcoholic: no matter how hard a spouse works on the marriage, until the addiction is gone, nothing can be solved.

I'm keeping your advice for a day when we'll be able to effectively use it. And I was kind to him today - not too sappy/warm (I'm too afraid/determined-to-be-safe right now) - but kind in a quiet way.

Right now, I'm watching him be nice for a few days, wondering when it'll happen again. And before anyone tells me I should be "forgiving," or "come on, quit looking for the fly in the ointment!" I will remind them that safety is too important to leave to chance. I am vigilant and must be until he gets real help & shows progress.

This weekend, in the interest of "health and safety" I told our weekly small group friends, some other dear church friends, and the associate pastor a little bit about what's up.

I need others in our lives to know what we're dealing with, and I want the safety of other people knowing what is going on. They can encourage, pray, and hold us accountable.

Seriously, KT, what turned this around for you? I'm looking for signs of life/hope. If you can tell me what to look for, I'd be glad to go hunting for it.

"I have really enjoyed your company the last few days."

Is that too difficult for you to say?

Do you think your marriage has potential? If not, why not quit now? I thought you said the anger was new. Is it? Can you let go enough to recognize the push-back effect I talked about?

If you are that worried about safety, you would separate until AM is completed. I am having a hard time believing that you fear for your safety, and that of your children, if you are not doing that.


Good luck with that! What's your plan again?

It's not too difficult - but it would be dishonest.

What would be honest? Is there anything you can draw on from your history together to use as positive reinforcement?

I'd like to hear your answers to the above questions also.

No, I said he's had 4 other incidents of physical aggression in this past year and 1/2. However, since we've been counseling, it seems to have happened more often and to escalate in intensity.

Additionally, there has been NO apology or remorse for the latest 2 incidents...this is what concerns me the most. Only minimizing, blame, and justification.




Well, because MB principles have saved even the worst marriages: those wracked with adultery, abuse, and even addiction.

Plus, my H agreed to go to AM. I'm watching his progress with cautious optimism.

Sure, I sincerely thanked him for my last year's MD present (used it tonight)...it was a thoughtful gift that I did not give him much appreciation for at the time. I apologized for that and told him how much I enjoy it & how grateful I am for his thoughtfulness.

Also sincerely thanked him for helping with dinner for the peeps tonight.

I am thinking of ways to reframe my EN complaints as well, though I have tried this in the past and received defensiveness and blame no matter how gently stated. That's why I said I'm going to try it when we're in a healthier place.