This Thursday is our 32nd anniversary. Just wanted to say that a little more than a year into recovery, things are going much better, and we feel like maybe a little celebration is in order this year. It's going beyond a "marking" of the anniversary, as it was last year. And it's not a "Thank God we made it through another year, who'd have thought we could do it?" kind of a marking either.

A full year of Just Compensation has made a small celebration possible. It was a really hard year with a great deal of pain, but our marriage is now markedly better and we are in love with each other. I think it started to turn around in my own heart and mind a full year following D-Day, when I started to believe that H's new behavior might be here to stay.

A year of Just Compensation helps to begin to dull the pain of the betrayal.

Keep on going, MT. A year can make a big difference.

LWFH, Thanks for the encouragement. I'm looking forward to getting past the D-Days year mark. End of March is when the EA started with all the texting and then the lunches at the local private park. Then I dread the next few months after that. Just hoping I am not detrimental to our progress during those times. I seem to struggle at times, but I know it is just lack of UA for now and when that happens I ask myself why am I staying. I just want to be sure I'm not creating my own fog in making it work. If that makes sense. I guess I worry that it is false hope.

BTW are you at Lajes fields in the Azores?? I was stationed there with my kids...we loved it and lived in the local community.

The last few months up till the D-Day mark were really tough on me. It was in Aug 10 the PA started; Sept 10 when he returned home from deployment withdrawn and depressed, Oct 10 we left our home and family for Lajes, and Nov when I found out about the affair. Every single month that passed, those thoughts were in my mind.

There were times I just wanted to give up. I was so terribly sad about the loss of the sanctity of our marriage, that H gave it away, that I very seriously considered leaving even though he was doing all he possibly could to grow an MB marriage.

We had signed up for the MB Online Seminar and during the time I was wanting to leave, I finally emailed Dr. Harley in the private forum. Basically, he advised me that as long as the conditions remained such as to avoid an affair, I could trust H. If the conditions changed, I would need to rethink trust.

All the conditions leading to the A have been removed: no overnights apart, strong EPs, a romantic marriage. To me, it was like a light bulb turned on. I decided to stay and really give the M a good chance. That's when it started to get better in my own mind. H's had never wavered.

I still think about the A, but our MB coach advised me strongly to push those depressing thoughts from my mind and consider the "today" of our marriage. It's hard at times, but as the months pass and the love units are deposited and withdrawals very minimal, it does get easier. My own BS fog did make recovery harder, and H had to do a lot of reaching out and loving me in the midst of my anger and tears.

And, yes, we are stationed at Lajes and love it here. It's so beautiful and rustic, and H has a wonderful no-stress job that is pretty much normal working hours, which leaves us lots of time for UA.

Thanks LWFH, I needed to hear that. I know WH is trying and he is transparent, but as I told WH I have baggage from ex. Which I I'm 99% sure the ex cheated, but could never prove it since in the 80s technology was not as available and I had women calling me saying they had his baby. Along with other odd things that would happen and his disappearances to hang out at the club with the "guys". As you may know the NCO club as it used to be called, had quite a few cheating spouses and that is where he lived. So I guess I expect the same behavior from WH...I'm stero typing him I know. Hard for me to believe this is just a stupid mistake that will never happen again. I'm trying but I have a lot of bad days still. I am worse when WH has to go on trips. Last month WH went on training trip and even had his parents meet him to visit his 90 year old grandma to help ease my stress, but when I went almost two days of very little contact I lost it. Starting checking credit cards and expedia to make sure there was no additional plane tickets purchased...my mind went wild. I work too and thought about joining him on his upcoming trips, but don't think it is possible. So I'm asking him to delay any training and trips as much as possible. I just need to stop doubting and do as you say...give the M a chance and get a new mind set.

I was at Lajes in 96-98 and lived at Casa De Ribeira up the road from Casa De Praia and the chicken shack. My kids were involved in the local Holy Ghost ceremonies and enjoyed it. As a single parent I didn't have to worry about them there. It is beautiful and relaxing. We enjoyed going to the Duck pond, Sulfur pits, Bisquotes (sp)swimming area, the beach in Casa de Praia and the bull on the rope as I called it. I also got to do the Spagehetti run to Italy on the Rotator. Don't know if they still do it, but it was a nice 12hour day there and exhausting!

I've been down lately and I started reading more posts to see if anyone felt like I have been. I came across "unwritten's" posts and it has helped me the past couple of days. I've been unhappy for awhile now and keep asking myself why bother. I know it has been because of the lack of UA with being busy with the holidays and graduations and traveling. The end of this month is when the OW and my WH slept together a year ago. The EA started a year ago March and I've tried not to think about it all, but not doing well with that.

When Mothers day rolled around I had a LB moment. I asked WH what he gave OW for Mothers Day. I knew he had given OW a birthday gift at the end of April last year and knowing my WH he would have been generous for Mothers day too. He just told me to "tell him" what he gave her. Then he just said he didn't want to talk about it, well within his rights, but it really bothered me that he wouldn't answer a simple question.

Anyway, after reading unwritten's posts I realized I was going through a withdrawl state of mind. I had already told WH we have not been doing anything towards our recovery not even reading our books. He said we would start that night. Well it got to be late so it ended up being last night, finally. But I really didn't have the desire to read it and just let him read. He read a lot to himself (he isn't a fan of Dr. Harley's ideas), but it was on the mark as far as our communication and UA. It opened the door for us to talk about some things and the big thing for me now is he wants to change jobs.

With the war dwindling down his job will be unfunded in the next couple of years. He has already received a couple of offers without even inquiring. My concern is he says there may be "some" traveling with this job which has me concerned that it would be a lot of traveling and that he also would work from home. Time which I feel will be unaccountable. I explained to him my feelings about the separation and how his job was still there for now and we needed to work on the marriage now. I pointed out I haven't handled his few trips well these past 8 months and didn't think it would get any better. He was grinding his teeth a lot and I could tell he just didn't agree with what I said. I told him I wasn't arguing with him about this job offer...just concerned.

I told him I felt like he was sitting back waiting for me to get over it so we could move on. Not really putting any effort in our recovery. It was good to talk it out and the next morning I thanked him for talking, that it was what I needed. He said he would try harder. I do feel better, but I'm concerned I will go back to the withdrawal state if he doesn't put more effort into our recovery and stop thinking I'll get over it with time. We both agreed to work on our UA and reading our material again.

Pray for us as we approach the PA date. I've already planned a family outting at the beach when my son comes to visit. Want to re-write those trigger dates!

I'm sorry for your continued pain.
It sounds like he answered all your questions about the affair. Dr.Harley says once all the questions are answered to never talk again about the affair.

Will he coach with Steve? Steve is reallly good with reluctant H.

Also you need to POJA that new job. I would not take anything that has traveling involved.

What EP's has he put in place? What have you done to affair proof your M?

I have to go back and reread your whole thread, but I saw this clip about the traveling.

Funny as we just went through this last week. H has been in positions which required a decent amount of travel in the past, including a consultant position that had him traveling 80%. Of course the majority of his A's and other inappropriate conduct happened while he was traveling. This is now NOT negotiable to me.

He just started a new company in March. He came home last week telling me about some changes that might take place, and that he might be put in a consulting type position again. I was like, no you aren't. H: Well I would make sure that they knew traveling much was not an option. Me: If you get anywhere near consulting you will travel and you know it. H: Well I might not have a choice, they might just tell me where I need to go with my skills. Me: You always have a choice, your choice will be to leave.

To me, this traveling bit was NOT negotiable. I felt like he was a little too eager and defensive and was upset he even entertained the idea. He immediately tried to tell me he was NOT entertaining the idea and knew traveling was not negotiable.

Even if the WS followed EP's to the letter while away, and never had another affair, to me it is the fact that I will sit at home and wonder. I don't ever want to do that again.

OK now I'm going to go read up on your thread.

I am no vet as you know, but from what I understand, Dr Harley suggests that once all your questions have been answered, you never speak of the affair again. UNLESS a new question arises. From what I understand, if it is a new question that you just didn't think about before, and now want the answer to, you should be given that answer. Vets can correct me if I'm wrong here.

I think your H's response of 'I don't want to talk about it' is unacceptable. If he answered honestly you would deal with it and move on. It is much harder to move on when you are always wondering.

So I finished reading and we do have many things in common.

One of my WH's EA's sent him photos of herself. I have never confronted her, but when I do plan to make sure she knows I have those photos. I don't, they were discarded and I never saw them, but she doesn't need to know that. If she looks over her shoulder for the rest of her life wondering what I will do with them, that is GREAT.

I always thought that we would renew vows on our 10 yr, but that was in the middle of trickle truthing on H's part and rebellion on my part. I don't even remember what we did. Since finding out about his PA, I think of our wedding, all things from our wedding, anniversaries, etc. with disgust and feel like our wedding was a joke. I do not have good feelings about it or want to celebrate it. Shortly after DDay I wanted to torch my wedding dress. I didn't, and I hope someday I can find it in myself to think of that day fondly again, hasn't happened yet. I honestly wanted to get a divorce and if we did recover remarry, as I felt like our original wedding day and marriage was gone and if we were going to start over, I felt like that was the only way.

We did vow to start celebrating our anniversary with a trip together every year. So far that fell through last year, and we have no current plans yet for this year (it isn't until Oct). Can't believe it is now our 13th year as it reminds me of how much more time this chaos has taken from us. Hopefully by next yr I can feel good about the time we have been together and not like it was wasted years of my life.

We also have discussed now, once we are well on our way to recovery, him reproposing and renewing our vows. I still feel like we need this renewal. But I am no where near feeling like we are ready for it yet.

So have you discussed EN's and is your H working to meet your EN's yet? Did you figure out what his are and are you working to meet those?

I find the UA time to be very important.

There is a direct correlation to my eagerness and excitement for recovery vs my resentment and withdrawal based on our amount of UA time and how we are meeting each others EN's.

We were talking to our pastor, but when his wife was diagnosed with colon cancer 4 months ago we have not been in to see him. As I said before he doesn't agree with everything Dr. Harley says. Mostly we are not a typical couple. We are kind of reversed. He needs the affection and physical contact more than me. I attribute the lack of this for me because of my first marriage when I was more affectionate and wore my heart on my sleeve. I pretty much don't have close friends, I don't chat on the phone with a girlfriend on a regular basis or do shopping time and never really have.

He doesn't agree with the POJA. He doesn't think everything should be agreed upon ethusiastically because it would never happen. Just like with this job thing. He says he is miserable and I try to explain it could be the final death of our marriage and his job situation could be resolved later. We have not done the home MB program, just reading Dr. Harley's books together again. I'm not sure he would talk to Steve..is he one of the counselors of the MB program?

EP-he still has his same email at work and personal one. I can check the personal one and I have popped in at work to check that. I have access to his phone and the phone bill, but no way of checking his work phone. OWH is suppose to keep track of OW calls. Fortunately she is out of state, but I do have find my friends I can check on my phone to see where he is if he doesn't answer his phone. We haven't written EP down, but have done pretty much everything listed on this website. He has bent over backwards to be open and honest. Of course I realize I need to stop with the questions and I think I've asked everything I need to now. As far as affair proofing, I have passwords, he deleted facebook account, he tells me where he is and when he will be home and he understands no friendships with the opposite sex. I think the biggest thing is putting more effort into our UA and I will feel more secure.

What about a poly?

Would he take one? Then get all your questions answered and then shut that door?

Yes Steve Harley is one of the coaches for MB. He's very good with getting reluctant H onboard.

I agree unwritten I'm more excited about recovery when we meet our UA needs and more depressed when we don't.

My EN's are not quite typical. I have always been about family and being there for each other, but our kids are grown and he isn't liking having the grandkids all the time. The ex daughter in laws and grandkids are still a big part of our lives with the dads, my DSs, living in other states and one being deployed. So I try to help as much as possible. He does play with them and all, but he doesn't handle the crying/whining well. I also try to have my youngest DS, that is still at home, babysit so we can go out. Which really is less than two hours by the time he puts them to bed. I even break my rule about WH calling me at the last minute to go out to eat when he finishes his fishing. I like to try to plan because of juggling babysitting with the grandkids.

Yes I agree, I would move on if WH would answer my question so I wouldn't keep wondering. The Mothers day question was one I didn't think about last July-Aug after discovery until OW's birthday rolled around and knowing he gave OW a gift card and then realizing Mothers day was right after that and that is why I asked him. OW brought her kids to the office and of course he doted on them and they drew pictures for him. Knowing him he would have gotten something "from them". But I felt he could have just answered instead of claiming I'm grilling him. I do talk about things as we read Dr. Harleys books in reference to the affair and may question more when we cover something that makes me think of more questions, but I don't think it is grilling. I think I ask to help me understand where he was coming from during those dark days, that man that didn't give a flip about me. To understand how he got there. What made him make those decisions to disregard his vows, his word to me to forsake all others. I realize it was just a big fantansy world for him, but I can't wrap my brain around why he can be so adament about paying his bills, his debt, way before it is due because his word means so much, but why didn't that apply to our marriage vows?

If your WH doesn't want the grandkids around then why don't you POJA this?


If he doesn't want them around. Then why are they?

I don't really think a poly is necessary at this point. I don't think he would take it. It's just I may think of something later that I didn't think of when I asked him after discovery. It's not like we sat down and had a long talk about it. It was mostly back and forth arguing and getting information from him. He wasn't so forth coming with it all, so it took time and of course I wasn't really thinking clearly as far as what to ask, but mostly what I wanted to know.

I would love to have him talk to Steve, just not sure how he would feel. I really feel like I'm a wreck and so unhappy with our recovery process cause there really isn't a plan now since we aren't seeing our pastor. It's more just reading and discussing the books which I dusted off the other night since it has been months since we opened them. I really wanted for him to show some enthusiasim in reading them and talking, but I seem to be the motivator and feel like I'm the one trying to save the marriage. As I told him, I felt that he is giving me time to get over it and just waiting on me. For him he is done with the affair and says he will never do anything that stupid again. I say it's not that easy and that he is putting a big target on his back for Satan to aim at with more temptation.

The one ex daughter in law and grandkids have been living with us since last November. The other ex daugher in law finally got a job after training for CNA and moved into her own place last Jan after 3 years. She can't afford day care on her pay so we watch then while she works midshift. We have the other grankids less since she has long work hours and the kids are mostly at day care during the week. But it is time for her to move out. She is paying lawyer fees fighting her baby's daddy, not our grandchild, over visitation and reducing childsupport and can't afford her own place right now. It was suppose to be temporary for a few months, but I think she decided to stay when the other daughter in law moved out. I did mention if she intends to continue living with us through the summer we needed to take the grandkids as tax deductions. Now she is looking for somewhere else to stay. Which means she will be dragging them from place to place and their lives are unstable.

Its not so much of him not wanting them around, he doesn't want to be raising them. Under the circumstances I don't see how it would be a POJA without being deterimental to the grandkids well being. Its just a reality in todays economy. I have made an effort to not let the babysitting take priority over our UA.

What about emailing Dr. Harley yourself?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

So you know affection and probably SF are important to him, high EN's. Thats good. Anything else? What are you doing differently to make sure you are meeting those needs?

I think if he is unhappy with his job or of course if it is about to end, there is not a problem seeking other employment, just not jobs where he will travel. Can you negotiate this? Perhaps help him search out a job that he might be happier at, but that will also support your marital recovery?

I am not an expert on the programs. We purchased the home program, not the online program. I believe the online program gives you online coaching support, which I think would be VERY nice to have in that it keeps you more accountable. Whereas the home program does not. I am trying to convince H that it would make sense to do this upgrade, he still thinks if we buckle down we can do this without upgrading... (work in progress:) )

Steve is Dr Harley's son and yes he is one of the counselors.

I mentioned talking with Steve, but he said the pastor was waiting on us to set up appointment. Seemed odd WH mentions it now since I know I haven't been the most pleasant person lately. He did say whatever I wanted. So will see how it goes, but I think I'd like to talk to Steve too. We did have a great time at the beach with family on the anniversary date WH slept with OW. Helped to not dwell on it and rewrite memory. Thanks for your input unwritten.

Have you seen this?
Managing Memories and Dealing With Triggers

Yes, I read this before that is why I planned my son's visit to the beach for that date, to make new memories. Even for WH even though I didn't mention it. He said he had a great time, first time ever for being at the beach.

Thanks for the link though, I'll review it again.