Not writing that NC letter is a

Oh, that doesn't even scratch the surface.

My biggest mistake in all of this was DH about my emotional responses to her desire to have relationships with other men. She had told me, long before we were even married, that she wanted to be able to attain a feeling of "love" with whomever she wanted to. I expressed concern at this thought, but foolishly shrugged it off. Commence plan doormat, as I decided to drop the subject about my uneasiness and let her have those relationships, thinking that she was sharing every aspect of them with me.

I haven't presented her my EP's yet, a tleast not with the premise of "here is what I need you to do to retain my interest in a romantic relationship with you", but we talked about a couple of them and her responses are gravely concerning.

No opposite sex friendships that are not friends in common for life.
She balked at this like nothing else. Just yesterday she stated she wants to be loving and caring for whomever she chooses to. This sounds like fog babble but there is nothing going on right now. I've double checked everything. Everything is closely monitored. It's just consistent with her opinions on this subject since I've known her.

End all contact with the OM(s)) for life. NC letters sent to all of them.
Doesn't want to send NC letters to any but the first OM, and she's sure dragging her feet on that one. The apartment and surroundings have never been cleaner. She finds tons of work to impose on herself then says she was busy when I ask her about it.

Now that I've also got SAA, LB, and HNHN all sitting on my desk. I've been reading them intently, and she's only shown a modicum of interest. We both agree that we won't settle for a marriage better than what we had before, but she doesn't share the same interest. Before I got these books, I also picked up the book Not Just Friends, and had asked her to read it - never touched it. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Maybe I actually am!

I refuse to follow plan doormat.

So my friend I think you need to start planning for Plan B. This has been going on far too long and she doesn't think your serious. Need to take your "balls" back, my friend.

Can you legally remove her from your home?

Can you legally remove her from your home?

No, and frankly I'm not sure how that would even begin to be handled. Both of our names are on the lease, and it has almost a year on it. She has no capacity to pay the rent for our apartment herself.

Besides, Plan B with no active affair? I might have misunderstood the point of Plan A/B, but is it not to give the BS the best chance of ending an affair? Is it appropriate is other circumstances? I can see one obvious one (physical abuse), but for this?

Well a wayward whom is not repentant and will not work on recovery is setting the BS up for a False Recovery. False recoveries can hurt worse than Ddays.

Have you read this? False Recovery
False Recovery Need voices of experience

Her excuses are pretty lame. Are you 100% sure there is NC between her and OM?
Have you checked for secret phones?

This is what you need to tell her if she wants to commit to recovery.

In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

BrainHurts,

Thank you for reiterating your suggested EPs. I posted what mine are earlier and it's very close.

She was asked to write a set of NC letters 6 days ago. I asked her to see what she had so far. "I just don't have it down on paper yet." Story short, she had no good reasons for not having amything to show. She has until Friday.

I'm tempted to just drop all the EP's at her feet and saying "these need to happen to keep me interested." I'm sure that would be a horrible way to handle it but I'm hurting so much right now. I mean, I just want assurance an affair wont happen again. Is that too much to ask?!

Okay... Vent off for now.

If she can't join you in recovery then you need to prepare for Plan B. If she will not do your EP's and NC letter that should tell you how much she is invested.

Have you read SAA? John and Sue? Dr. Harley counseled them personally and Sue left and moved in with her OM and so John Plan B'd her.

If you don't have a repentant spouse it will be a very tough road for recovery.

Yeah, I've read SAA cover to cover. My wife wasn't even the slightest bit interested in reading it at all. Actually got annoyed with me reading it...

Sue was actively pursuring her AP still. Mine isn't. There is nothing on computers or phones, and there's no secret phones or any other weirdness going on. Just bitterness...

How should I present my EP's to her?

Have you read this?

Coping with Infidelity: Restoring the Marital Relationship

If you're 100% sure the affair is dead then what are you doing to meet her top EN?

Are you stopping ALL Lovebusters?

That's pretty much the rule at the start of recovery rather than the exception at the end of the affair and this is also pretty much what Dr Harley's quotes above also are saying.

It's important you avoid LB's and meet whatever EN's she will allow you to meet as well as being vigilant and snooping to be certain the affair is over. As she de-fogs she will come to see the affair for what it was and will be able to respond to you meeting her needs. This will take time.

BrainHurts,

I used to want an apology from her. Now, I just want her commitment o the build the best a marriage can be with me. I've read that from Dr. Harley before.

As far as her EN's are concerned, I'm guessing because her interest in the MB program has been nil. I remember one article that suggested one spouse fill out the ENQ and guessing for the other spouse the best they can. I will do that if she won't.

AH is a bad LB for me still. I've started using the approach described in LB, and she's receptive to the idea of me practicing not leaving my socks laying around... You get the idea.

DH is something Im doing right now. Im not sharing with her the extent her recent behavior regarding the EPs and the NCLs has bothered me. I tell her it hurts for her to be delaying in writing the letters, then end up on the verge of crying all the time. She doesn't know the latter part. She also doesnt know I post here. I'm not even sure how to approach this.

Have you been to the doctor for some AD's? They will help you control your emotions better.

Ok so you've been married to this woman can you guess her top EN?

Most women like IC and Affection? How are you on this? What did she get from her OM that she wasn't getting from you? Also women like FS? How are you on this?

Good job on working on the AH.

Do not tell her about this place yet until you know she's 100% onboard with recovery.

How much UA are you getting? What RC are you doing?

Have you been to the doctor for some AD's? They will help you control your emotions better.
No. This was actually suggest by our joke of an MC before we dropped him. Might be the only bit of good advice he gave.

Ok so you've been married to this woman can you guess her top EN?
Sure. I'm fairly confident that IC, Affection, DS, SF and RC are in her top 5. Helping her around the house makes her crazy happy, I just have to be careful to conform to her definition of clean - she keeps the place spotless. I'm counting RC in there because she went through a time when she was trying hobby after hobby, and inviting me to join in with her. In retrospect she was probably trying hobby after hobby to try to find something to get me interested. I seem to not be interested in much at all, besides computer programming and music.

Her definition on clean has been a source of disagreement with us. It makes her happy when I help her, but only if my work done meets her high standard of what clean is. If it's not up to par, it doesn't do anything for her and she does all the work again. If I ask her what I can do differently... the nutshell version is she's usually unpleasant to be around when she's cleaning the apartment.

IC, until recently, was a horrible failing of mine. I tailored her to expect LBs from me if I ask her how her day was. I've tried so hard to stop it now and it really shows (she tells me she notices they are better, we talk quite a bit more.)

I know FS is not in her top 5. I used to think it was (not by name, this is before I knew MB at all). Nonetheless, we can afford our lifestyle on my income alone.

What did she get from her OM that she wasn't getting from you?
What she got from the OM was IC and SF. It was online. Hours spent talking late at night or exchanging webcam sessions, pictures, etc. I'm not 100% this wasn't a PA at the beginning (see my OP)


How much UA are you getting? What RC are you doing?
About 14 hours a week. And that's a liberal estimate of average. Usually when I arrive home from work she is very unhappy because she has spent all day juggling taking care of DD3 and keeping the apartment picked up. She also keeps up the area outside the apartment - general yard work (watering, mowing, etc.), and is still working on all this when I get home. It's usually then an exercise in waiting for her to get done, or helping her with it. By the time she's done it's usually late, and any UA time we can spend beyond what we do now would cut into sleep.

You need yo get that UA time up. So what's your plan to do this? What did you love doing when you were dating?

Have you read this Conversation is Boring

Listen to this Radio clip on a messy spouse

Well, for one we took the 4 hours of time we've been burning on MC and turned it into our first kid-less date in 3 years today. We both loved being out alone together.

I'm going to ask her about putting DD to bed a little earlier. She's gotten accumstomed to a late bedtime (11pm), and just an hour earlier would get that UA time up to 22-ish per week.

BrainHurts,

If I'm understanding what you're directing me through correctly, Im working on making my Plan A the best I can to encourage her to think about the EPs I have? Her enthusiasm about writing the NC letters is still nil. We agreed to her having them ready by Friday, but she wasn't enthusiastic at all (POJA issue?) about it.

Do I just continue to monitor, and try to use Plan A to convince her that my EPs are good until I can't stand it anymore? (and subsequently become a great husband in the process!) Not too sure how long I can stand it is all. She'll eventually need to be okay with guaranteeing this won't happen again.

How should I present my EP's to her?

You have work to do first, my friend.

You're really going to get one shot with this, and the result will either be Plan D, Plan Doormat, or Plan MB.

She will prefer Plan Doormat; she's enjoyed it for your relationship so far, so why change?

To bludgeon her into going to Plan MB, you're going to have to wield the club of Plan D over her head, convincingly. Right now, I don't believe you could convince anyone, least of all her, that if you were forced to, you could pull the pin on a Plan D grenade.

Why is that? Because NOBODY with the necessary SOB gene would have to ask that absurd question above.

So you should probably hold off a bit, until she steps on your face a bit more, and you can actually generate some passion for this fight, okay?