My plan is to listen to Steve and do what he says. He did not tell me to separate before he went on vacation....if you remember from my previous posts, I have been struggling with this all week, seeking advice from others as to whether I should have taken more drastic measures.

In the meantime, I'm holding it together until he returns.

And my H has agreed to go to the next AM session - this is a good sign.

You ever think that trying healthier alternatives could improve the health of your marriage, now?

If I had waited, I would be divorced now.

I agree with listening to Steve.

I caution against thinking it will be an insta-solution. For us, it took a year after Steve for my H to buy in fully. You have to be patient, or you will get in your own way.

CWMI, you of all people should understand the barrier that abuse builds in a relationship.

In your marriage, you were dealing with major IB and thoughtlessness, which is painful enough. We've got some pretty serious other crap on top of a bunch of IB and thoughtlessness.

Would you have taken your own advice with your abusive baby-dad? And how would you have responded if someone told you to just 'try harder' with him?

Well, I don't like it.

I didn't have any children with my abusive ex. He cracked my ribs with the butt of a shotgun, and I left, putting 3000 miles between us.

If you are being physically abused, you need to leave. Period.

I'll stop posting to you.

Good point, Brain. What got you guys over the anger problems? Was it the same thing for both you and your H?

Z,
I have heard Dr. Harley say that the very first step is for a person to accept that no one makes them angry. For any of us, we have to accept that although someone or some situation can cause us frustration or distress, we DON'T have to act in anger. With that understanding and belief, one then has the ability to start problem solving inside themselves on how to deal with frustration without displaying anger (like presented in Lovebusters). Sometimes when first learning how to change from rage to calm, as much as you possibly can, provide the least frustrating environment you can. Maybe that's what SH meant about provoking: you may not feel that you are provoking, but maybe go further for the time being and think about what frustrations you two can remove so that it is easier for your husband to practice the exercises described by Dr. Harley. �This could pave the way to being able to really get into problem solving in the end.

We both attended anger management, read Lovebusters and listened to Dr. H's anger mgmt.

Also we learned to put our marriage first above all of our 7 kids. When I stopped the verbal abuse and questioned things they way Dr. H teaches it was the ticket.

The lighbulb for me was when Dr. Harley told me "No BrainHurts your WH doesn't control your anger, you control yourself" "It takes two people to fight and you're one of the two."

Thanks for the answers, Brainhurts! What is "Dr. H's anger mgmt?" Were they specific radio programs/part of the online course or something?

Maybe someday we'll try reading LoveBusters again. We have thus far been unsuccessful in getting through it together.

Also, he found an AM course, but I'm wondering if there's one covered by our insurance. Gonna find out.



That's insightful. Thanks for sharing.

This is good, LifeLongLearner. I am looking forward to his AM classes - perhaps he'll have more self-awareness and be able to communicate those situations that he finds provoking. Then we can work on solutions.

I am not sure if you have seen this or not .. but maybe it will give you some perspective.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2575873#Post2575873


Check it out .. watch the vids in that thread. They are VERY short and fall right along with MB.

MNG

Z,

Here it is Anger Mgmt 101

Z,

A lot of things turned it around. I wanted to be a better husband. She wanted to be a better wife. We were completely willing to do follow with the meeting ENs, stopping LBs, and spending UA time.

We were both very reactionary towards each other. She'd wait to bring up several issues at once...many times in a demeaning manner. I'd get defensive and it'd turn into ScreamFest2000. As we followed the MB program, things got better. Now keep in mind it took months to really get into the spin of things. In the first weeks we'd have good days and then a bad day. Now bad days are very very rare. And we're at the point now to where if one of us does something to upset the other, we can pull the other one aside and say, "I'd appreciate it if you don't...." Or "I felt insulted when you..." Or "it's really not cool when you..." And if it's my wife saying that to me or me to my wife, then we're quick to say, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you when...." Or, "my bad. I apologize, I won't do.... again." And follow it up with a hug, kiss, and a smile.
We do a lot of drive by stuff too.

My wife and I both want each other to let each other know when we upset the other one because we don't want to do those irritants that mess up the mood. I tend to be a bit more easy to express frustration. My wife is a bit more like Melody in that she's a bit more defensive minded. I think it might have to do with how men and women are just wired a bit different.

But it wasn't that long ago when my wife would approach me with "hey! What the F%$k is wrong with you?! You know it pisses me off when you....!"

Then, of course, I'd go into defense from being attack mode and tell her if she wasn't being such a witch that...." Then she'd mouth off and I'd throw something.

Now I've never hit my wife. My wife did slap me once when we were fighting. I was quick to tell her if she ever put her hands on me again, she'd find herself single. I'm a firm believer that guys shouldn't hit women but also shouldn't allow women to hit them. This just makes you look unattractive and like a punk. I also believe that if you hit someone, you're a fool if you don't expect to get hit back no matter what gender you are. So to alleviate this issue, I just don't deal with relationships that involve domestic abuse.

However, it wasn't uncommon for me to get mad and throw something or hit a wall or knock stuff over. This never really bothered my wife because she knew that I'd never cause physical harm to her. She'd just say "I hope it was worth your jacked up hand hitting the wall" or something like that. And, honestly, I would have been very insulted if my wife had said she felt unsafe around me because I had never even shown the slight amount of aggression towards her physically. Emotionally now...well, we were both pretty bad to each other.

If I remember right, the first thing I started doing rather than getting into a yelling match was I'd just go take a walk. It didn't take all that long before the yelling got further and further apart. And then it got to the point to where it became that she and I couldn't even remember the last time we had an angry outburst towards each other.

I have no idea if that helped or not. But, honestly, we didn't really use anything other than Marriage Builders material here on the site, me getting guidance from some of the forum members, and using the Love Busters book. Stopping the Love Busters and spending UA time together made a world of difference. This set up us wanting to meet those ENs of the other.

The only other thing I can think of is I started to really embrace what one counselor told me when I was a teenager. It's basically that you control how you react. Essentially if you don't want to flip out and throw things...well, don't. It is you that is control of how you react and respond.

I like that first video. I'll dig through and watch the others too. Thanks for sharing, MNG.

My H and I tried to make it through the Pink n Blue Bible Study last year....but we got really stuck at the beginning. He started saying things like, "Well, you're just pink and I'm blue, so that's why you feel that way. I can't do anything about it," or "You need to RESPECT me - that's what the bible study said." It was so painful, and I quit going because it just made things worse for us.

It's been a really strange year. Things that make so much sense to me, things that I learn and become a better person for having learned - they haven't had quite the same effect on my H. It's almost as if they make things worse and I don't understand why. I could give so many examples (like his learning the LBs, then calling things DJs that aren't. Like my saying, "I don't like it when you travel for business," - and the response I get is: "You don't trust me! That's a DJ!" Or he calls withdrawal a LoveBuster...it's an "AO when I get quiet and avoid" him. Steve works to set it all straight, but 1 hour a week is pretty tight to try and explain everything.

I just don't understand.

I'm looking forward to Monday - next Steve session. I'm feeling a little bummed again.

Thanks BrainHurts! I heard these on the original day...will listen again with an applied ear.

Thanks for telling your story, KT! It helps to hear how you and your wife overcame all that on your own (I mean by using the books/forum etc). That's pretty impressive, in my opinion.

So at 11 pm tonight...after we've talked about the summer nanny for months and months, gotten everything ready for her arrival (same one we've had for 3 years now), discussed finances over and over, and even touched base on this yesterday...he says he's "not enthusiastic" about her coming TOMORROW at 11 am. (school ends tomorrow)

He came home from his business trip tonight and started pointing out everything that bothers him: a dish left here, a child in the bathroom too long, a kid using nail clippers. (OK, sorry - accomodate - OK,sorry - accomodate - OK, etc)

OMG - I actually had 2 happy days without him. I've got that old tightness/nervousness in my chest now that he's back.

This sucks.

Have you seen this?
Traveling Jobs

Totally agree, BrainHurts. His overnight travel used to be a real issue for us, and was never resolved. It's kind of what got everything started on the downhill slide: his job became more important than our marriage. He got angry, I withdrew. Add 1.5 years and here we are.

So sad.....

So any plans for him to change jobs so there's no traveling?