I still don't get why he put them in the dirty laundry hamper that we all share. He surely could have put them in the trash on the way to work. Its that stupidity that makes me wonder if he's telling the truth.

He probably got over-confident.

It's like with shoplifters. They do it for so long successfully that they get over-confident, and make mistakes. Then they get caught...

Oh yes its pure gaslighting.

My H told me he wanted to take OW to vegas on a boys hol PURELY so he could get on my case for being 'untrusting' when I freaked.

He said the boys who lost their friend merely wanted to relive an old stag do trip with the widow in his place. As a nice gesture for her.

He didn't have to tell me that. He didn't even intend on doing it, they were having secret getaway trips.

He just wanted to make me feel crazy and unsure about what was true.

If you're able, pay for and put spyware on his phone. It takes a lot of guts but I'm in the process now. Then regardless of whether he deletes things you will always definitely see it. And whats the harm if you find nothing then good, no harm done. But if you do find something than the truth can be revealed.

Here's my thought: He forgot. He forgot that he'd so cruelly deceived you. Because it meant nothing to him. He was probably stunned to be busted: not only because his infidelity had been exposed to you, but because it was a problem for your marriage.

I would suggest that you absolutely demand a polygraph.

Listen to these radio clips of a BW who had evidence of her WH's affair and he still denies it. That's why MB teaches to get the evidence.
Radio clip on BW having evidence of an affair and WH denies it
Segment #2

I listened to the radio broadcast. I'm trying to get more evidence, I think he got sloppy before. He took for granted for so many years that I would just look the other way. He keeps denying its lipstick.
I'm not having a good day. I feel sick to my stomach, probably from everything that is going on and I feel weepy and devastated. Why do I have so many highs and lows? How can I feel fine one minute and on the floor crying the next?

That's why we call it a roller coaster and why Dr. Harley doesn't want women in Plan A longer than 3 weeks because of the effects on their auto immune.

Can you get into your doctor for AD's? It will help you keep your mind clear and help you focus. Dr. Harley recommends them also..

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

The term "gaslighting" comes from the play Gas Light and its film adaptations. In those works a character uses a variety of tricks to convince his spouse that she is crazy, so that she won't be believed when she reports strange things that are genuinely occurring, including the dimming of the gas lamps in the house (which happens when her husband turns on the normally unused gas lamps in the attic to conduct clandestine activities there).

Hey BH, I'm already on anti-depressants for an anxiety disorder. I'm taking Paxil and Klonopin and have been for 6 years even through pregnancies and breastfeeding. I had to pick the lesser of two evils which was to continue the medication rather then be a mess. I honestly believe my husband has ALWAYS cheated on me. I think I'm starting to realize that. He's always made me nervous and insecure.

1. There were two hairs on a sweater that were super thin blond hairs. We only had two kids at the time. One had very short blondish hair and the other had hardly any due to the fact that he was a baby. I NEVER got a proper explanation and I kept the hairs in a bag for many years. If I had them today, they'd be out with forensics with his underwear. I have to say that he recently brought up the hair thing and told me the hairs were thin because they went through the dryer!!! Whatever. If anything the hair would fluff out. I have majorly thick hair in every way. (he brought this up because he says he checks his clothes for hair ever since this incident. I had asked why he didn't just wear the underwear to work if thats the part of him no one should see) He keeps going around in circles. He won't answer. Another tactic.

2. There were semen stains on his underwear twice. Yes men get hard and go soft all day long, but still a red flag.

3. He said a girls name in his sleep twice. The same name. He told me I must have been dreaming or sleeping or misheard him. Total Gaslighting. I really see the true meaning of that word lately.

4. The girls name that he said in his sleep(I found this out later) was the same name as a girl next door. She was a pretty skinny young girl, about 19 maybe? Blond hair. I guess at 24 I was already too old for him! lol. [censored]. I found her on facebook. I can be quite the detective if I want to be. I have no facebook account but I looked for girls with that name in the town I lived in(a long shot) of the age she would be and found her! I know it was her because the house next door in the background. Its like God wanted me to know. He denied that to the max. Swore to God and everything.

5. There was another girl that lived in a condo complex we used to live in. He seemed to know things about her that he shouldn't have known.
I could go on.

He tends to swear to God on his children if I suspect him of things. He did this for about 11 years and it was reassuring because I thought surely no one would do that if they were lying. After all children are sacred right? I guess not to him.
He swore to God on his Grandfather one day and he died the next day. Not saying that I believe in superstition but it was creepy. Now I just tell him to knock it off with his stupid "mantra" of swearing to God on loved ones.

Reminds me of me. After a decade I had so many little unexplained things, things that make you go hmmmm. Nothing conclusive. No PROOF. Of course H swore up one side and down another that he had nothing to hide. I thought I was just insecure or crazy, that had to be it right? Even though my gut instinct said otherwise.

Turns out, I wasn't crazy afterall.

Trust your gut. A poly worked for me, I got a confession pre poly actually about things I NEVER would have known about, things that weren't even on the radar. It really isn't about all these little details, it is about the fact that your gut instinct is telling you that you are being lied to.

How did the polygraph work? Was it accurate?

Psychologist Martha Stout states that psychopaths frequently use gaslighting tactics. Psychopaths consistently transgress social mores, break laws, and exploit others, but are also typically charming and convincing liars who consistently deny wrongdoing. Thus, some who have been victimized by sociopaths may doubt their perceptions.[6] Jacobson and Gottman report that some physically abusive spouses may gaslight their partners, even flatly denying that they have used violence.[citation needed]

This is from Wikapedia, but I can't believe how true it is!!

My husband denies hitting me. I remember several time and he denies them. Wow! This is dead on! He doesn't remember many times that he psychologically and physically hurt me. He does remember doesn't he? I also have thought of him as a psychopath and have said this to him a few times.
The mind games that I accused him of playing were really being played. I'm not crazy. There are many times he flat out said something and then not even 5 minutes later, denied he said it. I love the ipod touch because I'm recording him many times that he doesn't know. It looks like I'm just playing angry birds.

I am ashamed to say that he confessed when I told him that come hell or highwater I was going to arrange a poly, he did not have to agree with it he just had to take it. In other words, when I finally sounded PO'd enough to be serious. BUT then he confessed and it sent me into a tailspin and I figured we were going to divorce court and never actually followed through with the poly!

He has, since that day, been asking if he could take a poly to prove his innocence. But he has never scheduled one, even though I gave him that job. I figured it is his job now to prove to me that he has told me everything and that he is committed to recovery.

I am not foolish enough to think that there is not a possibility he is still lying to me. It isn't unheard of to have a WS confess to 'something' but not everything, to get out of a poly. I am still expecting him to take one. We discussed it in MC a week ago and I was quite adament that I took it as a sign of his lack of care and commitment to recovery, I know since then he has been looking for a reputable place, so I guess its in the works.

If he fails it when he takes one my thread from the recovery section is going to move right on over to the divorce section, this is a one time shot as far as I'm concerned.

Good for you! Are you going to ask him about the past or anything new or both?

I have to say if there is physical abuse going on (even a couple times) there is a definite new wrinkle that needs to be addressed in this situation. Dr. Harley has a lot to say about anger management and abusive husbands (and wives, I suppose). This does not necessarily point to "catch the D train" type thinking, but phyical abuse is bad news. I can say from my experience with simply intimidating actions (slamming doors and things) a man can have a profoundly frightening affect on a family. I deeply regret some of my actions (AO's essentially) and am very grateful for Dr. H's ability to illustrate how damaging that behavior is and how it's possible to simply NOT DO IT ANYMORE. But I was signed on with MB at that point. I believe your husband is going to have to buy into this program at some point, for a number of reasons. In the meantime I hope you can raise the bar on the hitting: A NO TOLERANCE policy is perfectly reasonable; I believe Dr. Harley recommends involving the police right away without hesitation, regardless of the possible outcome or mark on his record, or anything else.

opt

You're NOT crazy. I know exactly how you feel - they try to push it all on you, you begin to question your own reality and sanity. Get away from him. Stand up, call the police like you've been advised. Get some space to think and realize all this. Wish you the best.

Hello,
Just checking in. Were you ever able to get the results from the underwear sample back? Did you ever get a peak at his phone?

18years, how are you? How about an update?

Its been months and I'm back. I felt bad seeing that others had ask for an update and I hadn't. I guess I was put off by some of the earlier post about the authenticity of my story.
I did get them back from forensics. The first report said the stain was consistent with lipstick. DH made a huge deal about it so I told the forensics scientist that dh didn't believe the results. I sent in fire barrier so that he could directly compare the stain with the fire barrier. This time the scientist said it could be that because the match was better. I don't know what to think. I'm confused. We still argue over it, its always going to be a doubt in my marriage, I'll never feel secure and I'll never love him completely. I find myself taking more medication and drinking more, not just socially as before but to cover the pain. We had a big argument the other night. I swear, I wish prince charming would just pop out of no where because I may just take his hand.