Hi Everyone. While I have been reading many posts and thoughts from people this is my first post.

I'm having a really difficult time. We've been married 11 years (dated for 2). The first 3 years were pretty wonderful. We had our first child, built a home and the world was ahead of us! It was so romantic -- he even used to lovingly watch me sleep!

Around the 4th year his personality dramatically changed. It literally felt like we were slipping into a dark hole and I couldn't stop it. He no longer beamed at me, he seemed distracted and we began to have more arguments. I asked him "point blank" multiple times if he was having an affair and he said NO each time.

I was pregnant with our second child when I felt we needed to go to counseling. I found a therapist, made the appointment and we went to see her a few times. I spoke about my feelings and he basically charmed her. In fact, I thought she was kind of blushing and laughing with him. He said nothing was wrong and that he loved me.

Our second child was born and he was still different, enigmatic. We started to have awful fights. Not so much yelling but me starting discussions with him trying to figure out where he went (emotionally). He'd just sit there and look at me with this empty look in his eyes. I'd cry and feel like I wanted to run away, but we have 2 beautiful children. One night I called him a creep -- because that's how he felt to me. Weird, detached and unkind.

I even refused to sleep in the same room with him and really feel I died a thousand deaths. Lying in bed alone at night feeling the horror of the reality of the situation.

FINALLY, he went to a motivational seminar for the weekend. People were encouraged to be honest and clean-up their lives. He came home and told me he'd been attracted to another woman for well over a year (back when his personality had changed). In addition, he had been on a business trip, met a woman in the bar and went back to her hotel room. There, he says, they talked and kissed. He told me he began to feel regret and left before more happened.

I looked at the timeline and this all happened when his personality changed. I sobbed for weeks. The shock was AWFUL. I tried to shield this from the kids but they could tell Mommy was sad.

Well, our second child just turned 7 years old. It's been all that time and I cannot forgive my husband. He's never REALLY been remorseful. I don't try to talk about my feelings as much anymore. I have a deep, inner resignation (after so many years of lonely nights and sadness) that this marriage was NEVER what I believed it was going to be.

It wasn't just the massive personality change (he turned into a mean creep) and the affairs, but the LYING! He could have told me about this at the first counseling appointment. I think he's self-serving and fundamentally flawed. How you could have 2 children with someone and watch them go through the kind of distress I did.

He says he loves me. Good God. What kind of love is that? He says I'm the one that's ruining things because I can't forgive? I feel I'd be a fool to forgive someone that shattered the foundation of our marriage and remained emotionally detached through it all.

If I try to get him to admit the impact of his behavior he storms out, leaves, and behaves in ways I find scary. It's like his ego defends itself at all costs. I don't think it's wise for me to go for another round. How can I ever love and trust this person again? He's so immature and insecure.

Yet, I have 2 beautiful kids with this guy and leaving him will cause them to suffer. They love their dad very much. So, I'm destined to suffer either way.

I don't respect this man. I respect people who face their issues and handle them with honesty and strength. Lying, cheating and hurting your family is pretty lowly.

Any thoughts? What do I do? Thank you for listening!

A

AA,

I am so sorry this has been happening in your marriage. However, you have found the most supportive place for recovering your marriage and making it better than it ever was.

Have you done much reading here? Read the basic concepts. Get and read the book, "Surviving an Affair". If you haven't done so already, ditch the counseling. A counselor that flirts with a client is unethical and a threat to your marriage.

Do you know who the other women are? Is he still in contact with either of them? Take a look at the operation investigate forum. Does your husband give you access to his cell phone and computer?

You do realize that he has most likely had sex with at least the one in the hotel and possibly the other one, as well. Does your husband still travel for work?

Many men have secret second lives. The idea in marraige builders is to eliminate the possibility of a secret second life and to build a passionate marital relationship between the spouses.

AM

Hi Allison, Welcome to Marriage Builders I am sorry for the pain that has brought you here, but you have found the right place for personal recovery and the best chance of marital recovery. You will find advice, encouragement and support from people who have walked in your shoes and know how you are feeling. Sometimes that advice may seem counter intuitive, but please listen particularly to the vets who have a wealth of knowledge and insight.

The weekends can be slower, but know that the vets will be along to offer advice. In the meantime in the Notable Posts section you will find many useful threads. The thread for Newly Betrayed Spouses is a great starting place. Also the thread for abbreviations will be useful.

Do you know the identity of the OW your husband was attracted to for "1 year"? Do they work together, if not do you know how they met?

I know its a painful time but there are many here who can help, try and stay strong.

So many other people would relate to your experience. You are not alone in the world having gone through it. Even the length of time it has been your burden to deal with.

You are in the right place to make sense of the mess and to take action to no longer be a helpless victim of it.

Read all the concepts up at the top of the page.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

Read this post too to bring you up to speed to how Marriage Builders deals with infidelity
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659680#Post1659680

There will be no quick fix to things but you can proceed with the guidelines as you get stronger and heal and make decisions about what you will do in your marriage.

AA,

If this is your real name, you may want to get a different log in name. People here are typically anonymous. It protects the poster's identity in the event that a wayward spouse or affair partner is looking for information. If this is the case, the moderators can help you.

AM

Ditto. That name is the name of a prominent media personality. If you are her then you need to protect your identity. If you are not her then you need to distance your persona from her identity.

Your replies mean so much to me! I took a leap of faith and posted because I just can't take it anymore. There has to be more than this!

I'm going to read every link, thank you! It actually helps to know I'm not alone. I have kept a lot of this inside.

A

PS name is okay -- thanks for looking out for me!

Oh goodness! I'm not a prominent media personality. Okay, it seems the name is causing concern. How do I reach a moderator to change?

Name changed! Thank you!

FM, it sounds to me like your WH has engaged in a pattern of adulterous behavior. I don't think he's told you all that he has done, and he'll need to come clean if you have any hope of recovering your marriage. A healthy marriage can't be accomplished as long as there are lies in the foundation.

I think your WH has been feeling the pressure of his conscience, and his moodiness is the result of that. He's been living with the knowledge of the horrible things he's done and it's been eating at him. It's hard to escape yourself.

I believe he has trickle-truthed you; as in, he's told you enough to try to relieve his guilt. The only problem is that it's resolved nothing, so he remains guilt-ridden and moody.

The only way the two of you will be able to make a go of this is for him to come completely clean. Then you can decide what you want to do with the information. (BTW, that business of just kissing in a hotel room is a crock. You know that, right?)

I would suggest you schedule a polygraph and let him know that you need the complete truth. Don't believe him when he tells you that he's already told you everything. Tell him that, if that's the case, he shouldn't be reluctant to sit for a poly to confirm that. I would make this a condition for you to remain in the marriage.

Polygraphs cut to the chase.

Marital Bliss,

Thank you for following up with a really helpful post! I'm thinking about the hotel room possibility. UCK. Initially I didn't believe it was kissing for a super long time and drilled him about it constantly. He remained emphatic about the "just kissing" part. He didn't even remember her name. I said, "you took a married woman to a hotel room and you don't remember her name?"

Recently, he told me, "I wouldn't call what I did an 'affair'." I asked him what he calls it then and he said (almost righteously), "cheating, but NOT an affair." This is what I'm dealing with.

I'm going to insist on the polygraph! He will be so mean about it -- he doesn't like it when I press for something. However, I have to do something -- this half life is wearing me down. Really, tired and feeling so very sad. I don't like being snapped at. I think you're right -- he feels guilty.

Not willing to hang out like this any longer.

A

Finding -

Sorry, I'm confused. I've seen 2 posts, and both say they're the wrong post, post to the other? Not sure if things got copied from one to the other. Sounds like you could use some support, trying to get a feel for your story. Could you tell me which post/user name is the best one to read?

Best Wishes,
Rainy

Hi Rainy! Sure, I'll copy and paste the other post here. Same story, but with a little more info. User name was changed on my account which changed it on all posts. People had a good point about my original post being too identifiable to me.

This is from my post yesterday morning:

"Facts:

Married 11 years, together for 2
2 children ages 6 and 10
Marriage good until 3 years into it, husband withdrew emotionally & physically
Lied repeatedly when asked why
Hired a therapist -- he lied and charmed her
Refused to have discussions with me about his personality change, made me the "bad guy" for wanting to talk

He finally confessed 5 years ago, 3 years after the fact, to having a 1.5 year attraction to a woman he worked with. Again, this started 8 years ago and he no longer works with her. He says they flirted and he was obsessed with her but NOTHING happened. Apparently he says this is why his personality changed.

He also confessed to drinking with and inviting a different woman to his hotel room in Las Vegas on a business trip (7 years ago). I always told him to be careful before his Las Vegas trips. This happened after the attraction and while I was at home with a sick child. I do not know this MARRIED woman. He says they talked and kissed but that he decided to leave before more happened.

I posted for the first time yesterday and someone mentioned he must have done more. How am I supposed to find that out? He emphatically denies it. Believe me I've been asking him for 5 years!

For 8 years I have been living with an enigma. He has a temper and it's as if I have no right to ask about anything. I feel so alone and quite uneasy most of the time. I keep trying to heal with him but I hit this absolute WALL of confusion. This looks like having an okay day together and at night I start asking him how he could have done it. He starts snapping like a cornered animal. I usually hold onto a phone because his anger freaks me out.

Let's take last night as an example. I got him to read Dr. H's Basic Concepts section with me. He then began snapping at me. I don't like his anger -- it belittles and kills me. I want to take my kids, jump in my car and RUN. I don't really respect this guy. He scares his wife, lies, cheats...what's noble in that? What can I respect/hold onto?

Basically he seems mad that I'm smart enough to call him out. He doesn't really like having it called to his attention. I refuse to be intimidated.

He just doesn't care how he treats me. I've put my life into trying to build his self-esteem, supporting all his efforts. I've hidden this from all our friends because I don't want to destroy his reputation which I think will effect our kids' lives.

What do I do with the temper and his mean spirit?"

Okay, I think that clears up the 2 posts (yesterday and today). You can also see them if you click on my user name (which I made more anonymous). Thanks for helping me learn how to communicate on this board. I sense there are a lot of really wise people here. I'm a humble learner at rock bottom in this marriage.

I have so much gratitude!

I think the others are right - that he's been leading a double life for a long time. I'm not a vet, so my advice is only based on my personal experience. For me, a polygraph wasn't helpful. I would have felt greatly relieved if my husband passed it. He didn't. (But they would only ask him one question). He had a thousand explanations for why he didn't pass it, printed off things on how inaccurate polygraphs were, I had tiny children when we did this (this was many years ago, long before I found MB). I honestly just felt more trapped and more confused than ever. If he is openly hostile, I don't know that a polygraph - no matter what the result - is going to do a lot of good right now.

Have you tried Plan A at all? You can read about that in the Basic Concepts, I think. Personally, I would take a deep breath and spend a few days getting your own thoughts and feeling together. I would be as pleasant as you can be, avoid all nagging, questioning, arguing, rehashing - whatever. Clearly that gets you nowhere and only makes you crazy. (Been there, done that).

Read Surviving an Affair. If you can, also read His Needs/Her Needs and Love Busters. See if you can obtain any FACTS by snooping on your own, about whether he is currently having an affair. I wouldn't try to get the info from him - he's not going to tell you. And no use fighting over something from 8 years ago - although clearly you need to work through that at some point.

Arm yourself with whatever information you can, and then make an informed and intelligent decision. If you stop doing all the things you know don't work, but admit that you continue to do (I've been guilty myself, so easier said than done I know), and try Plan A for a period of a few weeks - you may see a change in him. If not, or if you feel you are past trying that, you can go to Plan B which will also help you to get your sanity back. You will find support, and far more educated people than I on these subjects, on this board.

As for his mean spirit - if you do Plan A, I would completely ignore it. Try looking for the light in him and simply extending unconditional love as you try to meet his needs (not forever, just for long enough to possibly see a change). I know this is not your fault, but you may be unintentionally feeding that mean spirit by engaging in confrontation with him. Does that make sense? It doesn't serve you to do that. (Darn hard not to, though, I'm well aware). Try to remember that all he can give back is what he has inside of him. If he is filled with darkness and anger, that's all he's got. In Plan A, you may be able to fill him up with enough light and love that you could possibly begin to see a bit of that coming back to you. If not, you go to Plan B. Either way, it's not about you - it's him. Control what you do have control over, your own behavior and responses.

If you do Plan B, you cut off all contact with him so you are no longer personally affected by whatever behavior he does or does not choose to engage in. Both could benefit you. You just need to decide with your own situation which is best. Personally, I would try Plan A at least for a short time before I went to B. But that's your call.

Hugs and Prayers.

Definitely keep reading the links on the site and meanwhile do what is called Plan A.

That is being your best self even in the worst of circumstatances. Do it for you, and it doesn't make things worse for your marriage while doing it.

While you are Plan A-ing, prepare and study up on Plan B.

I suspect, with the time you have spent being betrayed and mistreated, you will need to go there. You must be prepared to go to that plan.

Doing all this may not save your marriage but it gives it the best chance at being salvaged, repaired, rebuilt into something worth while. And, doing all this will help you heal from the sorrow and build your own personal strength, and save your own spirit to go into a good future.

First thing....now study 'Love Busters' and 'Emotional Needs' and practice avoiding the first and offering the second for your Plan A.

Oh yeah .... the soulless eyes.

Yes! Reading summed it up much better. And if you have to do Plan B, you will find strength again - just got there myself.