Deleted, entirely too many angry, sensitive, and spiteful folks here. Best of luck to you all. Bye.

So, you shacked up for over a decade, and you thought getting married would change habits that took a decade to build?


You ever tried eating cow patties until they started to taste good?


This thing you are in has to be rebuilt from the ground up, sir. And it will likely be built using the infidelity recovery tools here.

Yup, there is more than a forum. As for the woman who gets you, that would be Dr. Harley's daughter, who is available for phone coaching.

I suggest that you start with the basic concepts, and we will move from there;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

Sorry about that, deal_with_me. I hit "submit" too early. Welcome to MB.

I wonder if there are others like me who have read your post and don't know how to respond to it. For one thing, the jokey tone suggests that you are not seriously seeking help. For another...well, it is hard to find out what you are seeking help with.

I can't find a clear question in your post. I am also unclear as to why you have posted it in the infidelity forum. Has either you or your wife had an affair since you were married?

How long exactly have you been married? You mention kids of 3 and 5. Are they the kids of both of you? Did you have them before you were married? Why did you eventually get married when you had been together 15 years and already had two kids?

Could you ask your question in a simple, straightforward way? I would appreciate that.

Hey, Deal, I'm pretty new. Vets will be along with more concrete advice, but here's my two cents:

FYI, Dr. Harley's daughter, Jennifer, works with him and also has some info on the website. She co-wrote "Surviving an Affair" with him - woman who may understand you. Do you understand yourself?

Why, after 15 years, when she has been "good if not very good" for the past year or so - why in the world would you bail now? Read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts on here - I think the concept of the Love Bank is listed. Love can be rebuilt. If your wife is changing and willing to work on the marriage, you CAN turn it around. You need to get on board too, though. It sounds like you are just sitting back trying to punish her and expecting her to do all the work. Do YOU want to save your marriage or not? I believe you do, at least to some degree, or you would not have found your way here.

I find it strange, and see it often, that a spouse will want the other spouse to change for years (and let's be upfront - you weren't even spouses through most of this) - then when the spouse finally DOES change, the spouse who wanted it for so long suddenly lets all their own anger come up and ruins the relationship instead of taking the godsend gift they finally got! Why???

Being together for 15 years, having 2 children, and only having been married 1 1/2 of those years seems to demonstrate a lack of commitment on your own part, a lack of respect for marriage and the full meaning behind it. You have some work to do too. And yours is the only work you can control. Clearly, your wife behaved in irresponsible ways in the past (BEFORE she was your wife - but that does not excuse bad behavior). It sounds like she started to change and improve her life right around the time you actually manned up and made her your wife - right? So actually during the time you have been married, she's been a decent wife.

Do NOT go there, with the thinking about other women. No matter what your wife may or may not have done in the past, it does not justify your bad behavior now. Actions follow thoughts - don't mess with the nightmare you would bring to yourself and your family if you dabble in this. You have 2 young children who need you around, especially now with your wife's heart condition. You have a moral obligation to your family, no going off the deep end in a midlife crisis here.

There is hope. There is. The past does not have to be the future. If you don't deal with the issues in this marriage, they will follow you into subsequent relationships. You cannot run away from them.

First thing you need to do, in my opinion (vets may disagree? I think they'll concur though) is to read Dr. Harley's books ASAP: Surviving an Affair, His Needs/Her Needs, and Love Busters.

The information in these books is invaluable. It will give you some hope and direction.

Also, commit to sticking around and putting in some honest effort once you learn how to do that, for a decent amount of time before you abandon a wife and children who love and need you.

Good luck. You have come to a good place. You will get the answers and the help you need here. If you follow Dr. Harley's advice your marriage can be rebuilt, and be the best it's ever been. Stay in contact here, and watch for more insight which I'm sure will come shortly.

Welcome to Marriageb Builders and sorry for what has brought you here.

Do you have any spyware on her phone computer? Do you know if she is involved with any men now?

Get back into your marital bed. You can't work on a marriage being in seperate rooms.

Has any of her affairs been exposed? Have you been tested for STDs?

You can create a wonderful marriage following Dr. Harley's concepts.

Read these Exposure 101
Carrot and Stick of Plan A
A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

thanks, I did not read completely the first few answers as they just seemed to start off a bit 'negative' and did not offer any sort of help. I suppose some just expect everyone to be suicidal ,upset, talk about killing the spouse, etc to be deemed serious here. I actually prefer to keep my composure. Insert your favorite icon here.

I will look into it a bit, thanks for the advice.

Well, what a rude response to the post I took the trouble to make.

Since you don't want my help I'll just wish you luck here.

apologies, I had to walk away a bit, give me a moment.....was not yet finished replying to everyone.


At this point, things are going relatively well, but I fear I am completely done with her. The past is a strong memory.

Perhaps she finally did change, and so far it does seem to be the case. I want her to be a good person, even if not for me, I want the best for her, even if I am not there to share. I do want these things for her, but have you ever felt that there was more to life governing things with some folks, as if they were a puppet? Just seems thing black cloud has always hovered her, I on the other hand am a man that believes you make things happen, only wish I had made other decisions in the past.

I am aware that two wrongs do not correct anything, however at this moment, it seems that perhaps though she may finally be on the correct path in life, her lies have taken their toll as I emotionally mature with these types of things. Though I have never strayed, lied, etc in any relationship, my mind is now exceeding the speed limit, by a LOT!

I am sure nobody here is an 'expert' with relationships, just figured I wold share and perhaps someone would post up some helpful thoughts.

So I suppose my questions now are:

1) Walk and be done with her. Kids would stay with me. Even in California she would not stand a chance in custody court.

2) Why have I lost empathy in her heart condition when I still do deeply (shall I say love somewhere) feel for her?

Hoe many chances does a person deserve?

And to the other poster abover: Yes, data logging, cameras, hidden GPS devices, text forwarding, etc. have it all, tech savvy. At the same time, feel guilty for using them.


Thank you,

Dr. Harley is an expert with over 40 years of saving marriages. Do you want to follow his plans?

Did you read any of the links many posters posted to you?

thank you, will check into those. Today is one of those days. Where I disabled my FB account as I seldom use it anymore, she immediately started in on me because it no longer stated we are married........Suppose I should have told her I was going to disable it... Gheesh.

Do you have the book Surving An Affair? I would get this book.

Yes. We follow the Marriage Builder plans on this site.
You can read the Basic Concepts by scrolling up to the red bar and finding the link and reading them.

This is not an "I'll vent about my relationship site" where people tell you that you are wonderful and can do whatever.

This site is all about building marriages from all sorts of messes beloved have gotten themselves into.

How did you know what help was being offered to you in those posts, since you unilaterally chose to blow off reading them?

Drop the self-defensive crap. It's getting in the way of the help you obviously need.

BTW, welcome to Marriage Builders. You don't appear to be serious, but I think that's a defense mechanism. I'm ready to help, as are many others. Are YOU ready to receive that help?

deal_with_me,

I'm new here too. I posted for the first time early this morning. I think you're a good writer and express yourself well. I get that you are feeling really resigned. I do too. I took the advice given to me in my first post and read some of Dr. Harley's articles. I think you should read them too and see what you think. I can see there's a ton of work to do if my relationship is going to be saved. It's all still a theory, but with 2 children I'm willing to try.

I just have a quick thought for you. It's not a criticism but something to consider. Could it be that you were more comfortable in the relationship when she was emotionally unavailable? Now that she's showing up -- are scared? It almost sounds like that "bad boy" thing that women do but reversed. I'm referring to when women like bad boys. Wondering if you liked the bad girl -- kind of kept you safe with your feelings. Now she's showing up and you don't know what to do.

I've actually wondered about this with my husband. He had me on quite a pedestal when we met/dated and REALLY persued me. I tried to push him away and leave many times but he kept romancing me back (I know how pathetic). It's part of what makes me so mad at him. I always had a problem with men asking me out or bothering me. I thought he would be so good to me! Once we had our first child/married we were deeply bonded and I felt pretty vulnerable.

It was like he caught me -- knew I was connected to him for the rest of my life. Instead of honoring and valuing that -- it scared him. I don't think he liked this switch of power and thus pulled away from me. Found other women to chase.

Anyway, I know I'm interjecting my story here, but my point is perhaps her new vulnerability is just a little too real for you? If that doesn't resonate then forgive me. Just trying to help!

I do agree that if you start looking elsewhere the problems will just compound. I had a step-mother and she was dreadful. She never loved my dad's kids like her own. It never felt like a warm family.

Best to love the one you're with and try to make it work. I am not feeling super excited about giving this "jerk" another chance, but when I look into the sweet eyes of my kids and think about my own step-family -- I reconsider.

I'm wishing you well!

A

Whatever. Get over your sexism - losing that may help you.

You've lived together and had children together without the benefit of marriage. That's a 'dating with kids' scenario. That has the tendency to pave the way for more 'dating with kids' scenarios - only YOU aren't included this time - some other guy is. Sorry to tell you that. Bottom line: neither of you took marriage seriously enough to actually get married prior to living together and having children. Why are you flummoxed by her continued path of not taking her marriage seriously?

How can we help you, dwm?

Thank you. I will check into a few of those. At this time I am fairly confident that my spiritual self has give up on her and just ready to move on. Now I'm afraid I will somehow resent her by staying on board but time will only tell. I am willing, for the kids sake, to give this a go, but wow.

I do wish you the best through all of this and that your children make it through unscathed. It seems that you really are trying to make it work.

Cheers

You make things happen, as she's turned her life around YOU have matured emotionally, and you're thinking of cheating on and/or dumping your sick wife and taking your children away from their mother? Starting to sound like you have someone in mind and want justification for walking out on your wife.

If her lies and behavior were so bad for so long, why did you marry her after 13 1/2 years? And why would you watch her turn her life around since she married you, and then bail on her when she is ill and needs you the most?

Deal, I am not trying to be rude - I am trying to help - but you need a kick in the tush. If you want help, man up and take the advice you will get on here, put in the effort to restore your marriage and family and give your children the best life possible - with 2 parents who love each other and heave weathered the storms.

Dr. Harley says the only just compensation for an affair is a great marriage. Your wife cannot remove her mistakes from the past, but by your own admission she has changed. Have you considered what a monumental feat that was for her? To live a life that out of control for so long and then turn it around and remain a changed woman for over a year? Long enough for you to believe the change is genuine? It sounds like she is the one who has grown emotionally - in spite of reckless and poor behavior in the past - while you have checked out. And while I do not think it was okay for her to cheat on you while you were in a "committed relationship" for 13 1/2 years, I also do not think it compares to an affair after marriage. Her slate is clean since you've been married.

You sound like a midlife crisis man to me (unfortunately I have some painful personal experience with this). You're looking back on your life wishing you'd made different decisions, life isn't everything you want it to be, things are hard, your wife is sick, you have young children - wouldn't it be fun to bag it all and go play? I think you may be using your wife's mistakes of the past to justify (potentially?) wayward and irresponsible behavior on your part now. It's easy to make her the scapegoat for everything that went wrong in your life, everything that isn't perfect. YOU chose to stay with her for 15 years (by the way - a lot of women would have dumped you on your butt years ago with you not being able to make a commitment), and now you want to leave when she's doing the best she's ever done, and sick? And take her children?

Your wife's behavior of the past is not justified, and is irresponsible. But you say yourself she has changed. You sound like you're drifting into wayward fog, Deal - thinking of other women (or a specific other woman?), blaming your wife for everything that's gone wrong in your life for 15 years, saying the typical "I love you but I'm not in love with you" copout statement, no woman understands you (except one you've got your eye on elsewhere perhaps?) etc. What have you done in the last week to show your love for your wife? If you do not choose to love, you will not feel love. Love isn't the great escape high of an affair. Dr. Harley has a specific program for rebuilding love - you follow it, you fall back in love with your wife. It works. All you have to do is follow the program.

Although I do not have your wife's wayward and irresponsible history, my wayward husband somehow managed to turn me into a monster and blame everything on me too. Not saying I was a perfect wife, I wasn't. But anyone can look back on a 15-year relationship history (or marriage) and find bad things and tough times, and blow them out of proportion if they so choose.

I have watched my husband completely destroy himself, slowly and painfully. And it all started out with a whole lot of long repressed and well-deserved "happiness and fun." It is the worst thing I have ever seen. He has lost his wife, his children, his home, is darn near losing his job, has lost most of his friends, the respect of people in the community - worst of all, he has lost himself. Please, Deal, you are at a fork in the road. Seriously consider where you want your life to go. This fantasyland illusion of escape and adventure you seem to be building in your mind looks very pretty, I'm sure. It's a mirage, it will fade at some point, you will fall into a pit of darkness, and you will have lost everything. You cannot replace your wife and children. Nor can you repair the damage you will do to your children if you abandon their mother. There is an article on here by Jennifer Harley Chalmers, "Lessons Children Learn from Infidelity." And divorce. Go look for it and read it.

There are people here willing to help you - and many of these folks are experts. I'm fairly new on here, but I have found the advice and encouragement to be invaluable. At the very least, people here have experienced what you have, know how you feel, understand the situation, and can help you avoid the mistakes they or their spouses have made, and also help guide you toward the successes many of them have experienced - both in their marriages and in their own lives.

Dr. Harley knows what he's doing. Steve Harley and Jennifer Harley Chalmers (his son and daughter) do phone counseling sessions. They both know what they are talking about. I'd consider making an appt. with one of them if I were you.

You will not find support here for just throwing in the towel and leaving, if that's what you're looking for.

If you want help to build a beautiful and lasting marriage, and to change your own life and your children's lives for the better, you're in the right place.

I sincerely hope you choose the latter.

God bless.

So. You understand that you have all the time in the world to sit, stare at your computer, compose your response, go back and look at it, go get something to drink, change the channel on the TV...and THEN HIT SUBMIT?

We're here to help you, but don't play us.

Hmmmm