Update us please ZZ....let us know your ok.

So I was ok for a little while and I need help again...
Today marks 7 weeks since DDay1 and exactly 4 weeks since DDay2. In the last week I came to believe that my WH had stopped talking to his AP. He was spending little or no time on the computer (big deal cause this was a cyber affair that lead to 1 night in a hotel) and there were occasions where he left his phone behind or couldn't find it in the house (previously, it was ALWAYS in his pocket and he slept with it in hand for 6mos).

When I ask him if he is talking to her at all, his answer is a simple and non-hesitant "NO." I started to feel better. I started to eat again. I slept but not without nightmares. I am still very anxious and jumpy but I began to do better at work and have started doing things with my children again.

2 days ago my H posted a song on facebook. It was Mic Jagger's "Old habits die hard." For those of you who do not know the song, it is about losing someone you love and not being able to get over it. Although he and his AP are not friends on facebook, I searched her email address and found that she has another account under a fake name. They are not friends but they can see each other's activity. Hers is mainly blocked from those who are not her friends but they can certainly message each other and she can see the songs he posts.

I was livid. He is letting her know how he feels. I confronted him and he denied knowing any of the lyrics of the song. Yet, he posted the version with the lyrics! He denied knowing that she had another account. Yet when I visited her account from his, there were several photos that he had clicked "like" on.

He is LYING TO ME CONSTANTLY. I can't get him to accept full disclosure, he will not talk about the A. I am supposed to get over this but he is still posting songs to her (there were hundreds of them during the A and this is how I caught on originally).

I closed his facebook account and changed the password. He was not happy about it.

I can't do the 180. I just can't. We don't have that kind of setup. I am forced to be in the house constantly and even though I go for a walk each evening, it is not enough. I am in a foreign country, have no friends, no support system and no car. Money is a huge issue so I can't really do anything and we are not having any fun together.

He has also stopped wanting to be intimate with me. The last time was more than a week ago and he had difficulty half way through. This is the first time that has ever happened in 15 years. And what we were doing at the moment was pretty darn good!

I don't know what to do or what to think. I have stared obsessing again. I know that no food will go in my mouth as I have that hard knot in my stomach again.

I told him I know that he thinks he is in love with her and in truth it is a fantasy. I looked up tons of info on this and wrote a few small paragraphs for him to read. He read them and had no comment. When I ask him if he loves her, he says no. He says the reason he had the A was purely for sex. Yet their correspondences, phone calls and song sending became more intense and more in "love" after they met for one night.

What he is going through now, is it normal? I have tried explaining to him how important it is for him to cut all ties with her. I have given him an ultimatum in that he chooses me or her because neither of us want to share him. I have promised an amicable split and told him that this is not what I want but I will do whatever is best for us and our children.

Do you think he is still talking to her? Is he going through something that I can't understand? Is there any kind of time frame for him to get over her. Knowing that the affair lasted about 4 months in cyberspace, lead to a night in a hotel and then a month later I found out about it. Their last phone conversation that I know of, was on the 10th of May.

Please... any insights will be greatly appreciated. Help me as I am at the end of my rope here.

Did you ever get the keylogger installed? Did you see Northwood's advice?

Did you ever facebook exposure? Find OW's BH?

I have tried hundreds of keyloggers and even befriended a real computer geek. There is nothing I can put in his computer that he can't find. I wish I knew how to write code myself.

I have not exposed on FB because things were going smooth and I was doing well. This would be a total blow up and I am sure it will end in separation/divorce or worse.

My problem is that I had an amazing relationship with my husband for 5 years in the beginning. We had problems throughout the years but there were many times that we talked and got along well. We have very similar personalities and we have a great time together when we are out having fun. We like the same things and there is still something there if we can capture it and make it the new normal. I love him. I love him so much and it hurts so freakin bad. I wish I could scream it in his face but I am sure he wouldn't care.

P.S. Can't find this woman and have purchased things to track her online. I even sent a friend to the island where she lives to try to track her down. I know the first names of everyone in her family but still not sure about the last name. My friend had no luck. I NEED to find this man and tell him about his wife.

You said you have her facebook? This is why we have been recommending exposure. They just took their affair deeper underground.

Did you make a copy of her facebook friends? You need to expose this now.

I can't see her facebook friends from his account or mine. And what if they did not take this deeper underground? I expose and lose everything. Things like that are NOT done here.

Can you make a fake account to see? I thought you told Sugarcane you were going to live like this for the next 6 years?

This is what I've been stressing and worried for you, the mental anguish. Can you afford the coaching center?

Email the Harleys. Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Thanks

Have you googled support groups for the domestic violence? I am so scared for you about escalating violence, physical and mental. It does get worse. I know how difficult it is to break away, how terrifying it is. You get used to the drama of the abuser, it becomes "normal". It isnt. I am so worried for you.

zz, your choices for living in that country for another 6 years are either:

1. You live in the house and become indifferent to the affair and your H. Snoop if you want to know the status of things, but do not confront or try to stop it. Have no more sex with your H, BTW. (What was the result of your STD test?) Simply co-exist and mark the time until the kids are 18 and can choose to stay there or go to the USA with you. Do not confront H because you do not want to risk violence, but also because you must protect your mental health. Disengage with him, except for surface politeness, completely.

2. You leave the house and stay in the country, again until the kids are 18. That would be my preferred option. This will clearly take some arranging of finances and a place to live, etc.

I was in no way suggesting that you stick with him for six years, trying to put the affair behind you and have a fulfilling marriage. You cannot do that because it is obvious that he is still in the affair, and is still sleeping with her or will do so sporadically when he gets the chance. This is still a full-blown affair and you must not be a fool to yourself and think that it is over.

dear zouzouni,

I have gone through several false recoveries. Believe me your H is still deep down in the A and has absolutely no intentions to break it. I have been living with my WH for 1.5 years always doubting my gut feeling that the A is not over. He got good at keeping it underground but you can feel it. My WH has never been physically abusive or even emotionally. He was just gone emotionally from our marriage and that was pretty hurtful for me. But as what I read from your posts - you live in a foreign country, you do not have any friends or support there and your WH is very physically and emotionally abusive. You are even afraid that "my children will be left without a mother" if you tell them of the A.


Your situation being in a foreign country and having financial troubles, no friends and support there and kids which you cannot take out of the country is not good. If you ask me the best option for you will be to leave and go back USA. Get financial help from relatives and friends and use the money to somehow get yourself and the kids out of the country. I know that legally you cannot do that without his approval and he will never approve, but you can always find some doors in the system..... Then you can start a new life and become the independent, happy person that you were. If your WH wakes up some day, he can follow you there.

If your husband is psychically abusive and has no care for the kids - he is not good to you or to them. You might have had some good time with him before, but that is gone. The reality is that he is wayward and physically abusive. There is just nothing you can do to change him. If I was in your shoes I would be searching for any possibility to get myself and my kids out and start a new life with them.

Yes. He's having an affair.


Number one, stop trying to educate him because it's pointless. It's like Iran loving Israel--it isn't happening so save your breath.

What would this "amicable split" entail?

WOW, so many replies overnight and I hadn't expected it. First let's talk about the physical, emotional abuse. The last time there was any kind of physical abuse was back in 2008. At that time, I enlisted my in-laws to help and my father in law told my H flat out if he ever lays a hand on me again, he will leave the house and the village and never be welcome here again. My father in law is a "no nonsense" kind of guy and my husband was mortified. My husband did get some counseling at the time and ever since, when I have seen him enraged, he has left the room or left the house. I have not been afraid of him since.

As for the emotional/psychological abuse, I have flatly refused to take it anymore. I am not going to be abused and cheated on. It has been 7 weeks since the A and there have been plenty of fights. Some of them really bad too. At the start, I told him the abuse is over and I am not taking it anymore. I told him I will stop him when I see it and if it continues we will go to war because I am not living like a frightened little girl anymore. Each time I recognized words of abuse I put my hand up and said "STOP, this is emotional abuse or this is psychological abuse." He stops. There have been times when he has started to say something and then stopped himself. I ask what were you going to say and he tells me it would have been mean and abusive so he is not saying it. This is a true effort. The fact that he admitted to being abusive about a week ago is HUGE.

As for leaving, I have started to put a little money away secretly. It is not much but I see that I can get away with about 50 euro each month. Made my first deposit at the beginning of June. This is the backup plan, just in case. I have made it clear to him that if I find out he is still in this A, I will take the kids and go to the city nearby and get an apartment. That is the best I can do for now. I found Greek Law books, translated, online and read on marriage law. The children can choose which parent they want to live with when they are 14 years old. This means I only have to be here for 2 more years if things get bad.

Yet, no matter what anyone here says, I cannot give up on my marriage. I am the kind of person that has to feel they gave 100% effort to make something work or to finish a project, even if it doesn't work out. My husband wants this marriage for whatever reason and I feel that it would be much better to live in our house in peace than to live nearby in strife. I have to try and as long as he is giving some kind of effort and not being abusive, I am fine with staying.

My children are happy for the first time in years. They see us getting along and they are getting much more attention from their father. He is making a genuine effort to be not only closer to them but to be a part of their lives in making decisions about them and helping them with things. They have started going to him instead of me for some things. I see a positive change in him with them and in them with him. If things go awry, I will have to tell them and we will move but for now, I want to let them get to know their father for the first time in their lives and have some fun with him.

As for the A, I have come to the conclusion based on his mood and his actions that either he has cut all ties and is in mourning or they have had to go so far underground that he is not getting what he needs from her. He has never experienced the loss of someone before. I have lost my entire family starting with my closest grandparent when I was 9 years old and the last was my uncle only 5 years ago. I grew up in a house with 8 people and only mom is left. I recognize mourning when I see it as I have lived through it so many times.

He may be a lost cause and I may be stupid but this is where we are right now. I have decided to implement the 180 in full force and started yesterday. I have never been emotionally or physically unavailable to him before. I changed one simple action yesterday and the results were amazing. I thought it would be difficult, I thought he might retaliate but once I realized that he holds the cards and the only thing I can control is my own life, I realized that I have nothing to lose but everything to gain with the 180. For the first time in 7 weeks, my head feels more clear, I have a plan, I have some self confidence and I feel strong.

If we split, I would move to the city nearby where I do have one friend. I would get an apartment and work from there. Amicable would be that he sees the children on the weekends and we do not communicate other than to set up times for him with the children and this would be done by text if possible.

Finally, sugarcane: the std test came back with a yeast infection. I have yet to see if it comes back when we are intimate. The Dr. said it could be from all the stress.

What is 180?

Is that the 180 love dare?

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis. I also tried implementing this before MB, but with no success. I would advice you to stick to MB plans from my personal experience. I was so lost wondering and trying different things to change my WH before MB, it was exhausting and nothing made him 'see'. The plans MB offers are clear, logical and tested by so many people and the results of either personal or marriage recovery are great. I also wanted to save my marriage at any cost. I am in plan B now for 3 months and feel really better. I have started living for myself and my kids and I am feeling good and proud with my achievements and myself. And when I am better my kids are also better.

Did you get SAA? If you haven't do it, it is a great book. I can tell you a place to order with free delivery if you are interested.

***EDIT***

I am told the 180 takes time but when you are dealing with such a weak minded person as my H... time will tell.

I work from home and finish at 7. Every evening after work I leave the home office and go into the house and do chores, usually where my husband is doing his thing. I tend to stay close and dote on him. Last night I was exhausted from everything, just everything. I finished work and went into the bedroom to take a nap. The kids were out and he was working on a project in the sitting room. He came into the bedroom (I am sure he was expecting to see tears). I looked at him as if he were crazy and asked what he wanted, said that I was resting for a bit. He said "nothing" and closed the door. Half an hour later he came in again, "are you ok" I said "yes" politely and he closed the door again. He let me sleep for an hour and came in again. I was in such a deep sleep I thought it was one of the children. Before I could open my eyes, he was trying to kiss me. I pulled back and looked at him. He said "I am sorry for fighting with you, let's please make up."

This is the man who does not have the word "sorry" in his vocabulary and he has NEVER in 15 years made an attempt at a makeup. Even when we have made up in the past, he has always made sure to make me see that I am to blame or partly to blame. Not this time.

I think the 180 will work very well for me because I am a huge giver. I have sacrificed everything for this man and my children. My children are pretty self sufficient and help me around the house. With them it is a give and take, the more I do for them, the more they try to find ways to show me that they appreciate me. My son took out the garbage and made his bed without asking today. My daughter washed the dishes and swept the floors...

As for my husband... he is the typical Greek man who expects his wife and any other woman around him to jump just because he thought of something he might want. This has stopped since DDay. I prepare the main meal of the day and everyone is on their own for anything else they want.

My husband has started making coffee for me on the weekends. He learned how I like my coffee for the first time in 15 years.

Now, I implement the 180 in full force and see how it turns out. If it doesn't work out, well... I am on my way to my own recovery anyway and have NOTHING to lose.

This 180 sounds non-MB.

Why won't you do MB? You are on Marriage Builders.??

Why not call the coaching center? Or Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

X 2. zz, I don't understand why you are posting here, but trying to implement other practices?

When I have seen other posters do this, it is usually because they realise that MB makes sense, but can be difficult to do.

The easier route is not always the better route.

Besides, we are such a great bunch

Please, for the sake of continuity, stick to one thread discussing your marriage.