Hi, NYC_Runner, welcome to Marriage Builders. Why don't you post some more of your situation; we may be able to help you bring your reluctant spouse on board.

Thanks Marco, will do:

About 3 years ago, I realized what bad condition our marriage and relationship was. Otherwise "happy and healthy", we were ignoring each other. I was working 60-80 hours a week providing a nice income, home, car, etc, but we were basically roommates. Sex was maybe once a month, so I was always resentful and angry, she "always walking on eggshells" or avoiding me. No date-nights, no vacations without the kids, no romance, etc etc.

After having 3 kids, my wife didn't want sex anymore. Her whole focus was on raising the kids, and she 'encouraged' me to go on-line to 'take care of myself'. In the midst of this, I've had to change jobs 3 times, which she sees as my failure to provide a secure income. We have some debt, but the mortgage is paid, and we still have modest vacations, live in a great town, etc.

But the "taker" in me realized that nothing I did ever made her happy, she maintained that her top 4 priorities were the 3 kids and her, and i was last on her list. She was always critical of every thing I did, returned any present I bought her, never had a compliment, affection, or respect. In bed, there was no foreplay, no romance, no eroticism, I wasn't allowed to touch her anywhere, nothing, "just climb on and get off". Hugely in satisfying and self-loathing.

She would get angry and say the most hateful things; ( never should have married me, just waiting for kids to finish college so we can get divorced, ... Etc) but I realized she was not happy, and asked her to go with me to marriage counseling. We went to two sessions, with superficial conversation, but she thought I was going to ask her for a divorce. No more counseling, and I "wasn't allowed to discuss our issues" with anybody else, including my family. She talks to one of her girlfriends almost every day, and I had called her once for advice.

I went through 4-5 marriage books before finding Marriage Builders: HNHN, but she refused to read anything or even discuss our marriage or our sex life. As long as the paychecks and her lifestyle kept up, she was "happy". To her, "divorce starts with marriage counseling".

I quit the Internet porn and chatting and masturbating and we agreed that was a huge problem we both had a role in.

We made a date, but then when we got home she was "tired and going to sleep": huge 1-2-3 am arguement. I read several chapters of HNHN to her. She agreed to read the book, and found most of it exactly right.

So now we are spending more time together, she talks with me, not fighting, and having sex about every two weeks. I still get resentful after a week, but she has had several orgasms ( a first!) while we are together, ( but by her own hand, still no touching that).

She agrees we are much, much better off now, but I feel like there is still a gap between us. We did the Needs Assessment, but never followed up.

Can you afford the coaching center?

NYC, good to see you post. I think you guys took a tremendous step in agreeing to stop the outside sexual experiences, and in eliminating fighting! At this point, it sounds like your wife is reluctant because she's probably just disillusioned that anything can put your relationship back to the way it used to be. Her feelings are driving her, and in fact her feelings are going to form her beliefs and guide her logic and reasoning.

What gaps are you feeling? What unmet emotional needs do you have, what love busters does she commit, if any?

And what are her complaints about you? Would she agree that you guys do not fight any more? Is there ever a time when she feels you are demanding, disrespectful, or angry?

I would agree with your wife that "divorce starts with marriage counseling." Most marriage counselors suck, sad to say. Most of them do not even believe it is possible to restore romantic love in a marriage, so how could they accomplish any good at all? After all, that is what you and your wife -- particularly your wife -- need the most! Read this article by Dr. Harley's daughter, Dr. Jennifer Chalmers (she is also an accomplished marriage counselor/coach of several years): http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8118_real.html

Two things, first, i am last on her list of priorities, my happiness doesn't matter to her, I should be happy with what I got. But ultimately, I think the problem is the lack of sex, affection, and romance toward me. I feel like a paycheck and baggage man. I'm disappointed over and over again. "not tonight, but definately tomorrow." but that never works out. "Tonight, definately tonight," then nothing. So that all seems like lies and stall tactics. She is very independent, and doesn't text, phone or email me. She is attractive, but has a terrible self-image, so she hides herself. She might get dressed up if we go out, but by time we get to bed, the lingerie is in the hamper, and the flannel sack is on. She can be such a critic, almost always has a negative comment that spoils a nice time. We have it pretty good, but nothing is ever good enough.

But she is not willing or interested to be an equal partner in bed. She seems to have no libido, and certainly no interest in me. As the book says, this is a huge disappointment in my life.

I would suggest putting a keylogger on her PC and get snooping .. maybe she is up to something. Your wife sounds alot like mine was a few years ago ... things have changed now though (thank god) since marriage builders.

We did the whole marriage counselling thing .. its only serves to facilitate divorce more than anything and you end up feeling worse when you leave than when you went in.... waste of money. do MB .. start small ... or maybe try and read the books together... or print out 2copies of all the questionairs if your wife has any interest in MB at all .. that could get the ball rolling.

Get HNHN and fall in love stay in love. . and Love busters books. print out the questionaris to help you ID your top EN's and then plan A your wife... all the while you SNOOP to see if something is up.. if you find something thats up .. bring it here .. DO NOT confront. We will help you with the next steps.

MNG

She thinks I'm 'impatient', because I get upset when we don't have sex for a couple weeks. We have a TV in the bedroom, which I hate, but she refuses to compromise on. Then sometimes I say something disrespectful about it, and she gets mad. She was telling me about another couple having trouble, and I said, "well, he's not getting any either."

I have so much resentment built up inside and feel like she is closed off from me. She watches these "man-hater" movies and mirder mysteries on lifetime, where the (always) guy does heinous things to women. I feel like she's afraid of me, and thinks it rediculous that she has to sleep with me. She even gets mad at me about dreams she has!

I'm a nice guy, hard working, helps with dishes, vacuuming, and laundry, home repairs, and funny. I've never done anything to harm or scare anybody. I just have a libido, and she has none.

NYC, here is the biggest gap in your marriage and the reason why nothing changes. It is because you don't spend enough time together to create or maintain romantic love. You have fallen out of love. It takes 20-25 hours per week to fall in love and 15 hours to maintain. If you could get her to spend 20 hours of undivided attention with you per week, you would fall in love again. And if she is in love with you, she will want to have sex with you.

Those 20 hours should be spent meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs: conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. The time should be scheduled out for the preceding week, writing out times, dates and planned activities. Time that is scheduled is harder to put off.

If you would get the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook, there is a worksheet in the back you can tear out and make copies.

THAT is where I would start. If you can sell her on this concept, you will get the marriage you want.

And you MUST stop the lovebusters now. You can't afford any more lovebusters and if you don't stop them then any time you spend together will be ruined. Make that time absolutely enjoyable and pleasant.

That undivided attention time is most effective when done in 4 - 4 hour blocks away from the home. Get dressed up and go out for dinner, for long drives, etc. UA time away from home has an entirely different quality than time spent at home. Do you have babysitters?

She is not interested in doing this. She won't find a babysitter, and we spend most evenings shuttling one or the other of the kids to their sports. She doesn't like to spend money on a sitter, unless it's her plans to go party with her friends. Thats justified, but not a date with me! On the weekends we try to run together. I will have to leave work earlier, so I'm home earlier. I have an hour commute, and still work too many hours. They are laying off people at work, so I worry about that.

I feel like if I do plan B, she would be fine with that, and/or would hate me for it.

Will have to research a key logger for Macs.

Try this from here Keylogger Programs

Thats because this has not been sold to her. Why should she buy something that will make her miserable? You make her miserable. You lovebust her, make demands, ask for sex all the time, you are something to be avoided.

But what if she could be assured you would be pleasant and enjoyable and that spending this time with you would create romantic love? That something would be different? Can you sell that to her?

If not, can you swing some counseling sessions with the Harleys? Because the issue here is that she is so withdrawn from the marriage that it will take a major selling job to bring her back. If someone can convince her to spend that time with you, she can fall in love again and have a happy marriage.

She stands to benefit the MOST from this but she can't see it because it has not been sold to her. There is nothing here to motivate her to BUY.

I would first get the book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, read it so you understand it enough to sell it to her. Try that first, and if you can't sell it, then get some sessions with the Harleys and have them sell it to her.

I will keep trying, and spend more time at home. I feel like it is hopeless because if/when I lose this job, she'll withdraw even deeper, and I feel like I will just walk away. I could care less about the job because it seems (to her) that my life is just a slave to pay her bills. I don't want to be a slave anymore.

You have three minor children. You would just walk away? Seriously? And what, leave your wife to handle the bills for your children because YOU don't want to be a SLAVE?

**EDIT**

NYC, get a sitter yourself and plan a date. Your working hours have likely left your wife feeling like a single mother already, so it's not a far leap from a check in the bank to a check in the mailbox, made more appealing by not having to have sex with a man who ignores you otherwise.

My H used to complain about 'being a paycheck' and you know how that was remedied? By him doing more than just providing a paycheck. There was nothing I could do about that, HE had to get checked in. How checked in are you? You sound as withdrawn as your wife.

What is your plan to find your next job? That's going to be crucially important for a whole lot of reasons! Obviously, you've got to eat, and of course not having a job is not attractive to your wife.

Facing job pressures is likely to cause depression for you, putting you into a place where you can't see a solution to how to get a new job. You might consider antidepressants to help keep you "up" long enough to make and execute your plan.

Agreed. I am withdrawn. I want to be in love and be loved. I don't want to spend the rest of my life miserable, and I'm here to change that. Sorry I am so meloncoly (sp?) but it is "Friday night, and I gotts nowhere to go. " Now I hate frodays, and weekends. Another weekend being ignored.

FYI, we just spent 5 days on vacation doing Disney and I was engaged and involved. But she forgot about any romance. "Don't worry about me honey, I got the bags and the bills!"

Yes, I'll have to find a sitter. I think she'll get a kick out of me calling her friends to come sit. I got blasted for that "inappropriate behavior" before...

Walk away? That's what Dr. Harley says every week on his show, a man gets divorced and the Dad can never see them again. Maybe I'm just venting, and should clam up now. Like I said, she's been withdrawn for ten-twelve years and my 'Taker' is charged up.

I second what markos said - find another job ASAP. 60-80 hours a week is not sustainable; it's burning you out and it leaves no room for UA time.

Is there anything in your lifestyle that can be pruned so that you have to bring in less money? Trade in new cars for used ones? Do away with lawn/pool/spa services? Cut back on activities for the kids? Does your wife work outside the home?

I'm looking, but if she can't pick up the (HNHN) book now, then it won't really matter later will it. Unless she wants it to.

None of this will work without her participation and willingness.

I won't go to a shrink for anti-depressants, in our state you end up on some govmint watch list. I'd rather have my face chewed off my a naked homeless guy in Florida, and that'll never happen. Oh, nevermind...

Did I mention I hate Fridays?