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Once again - thanks to you - !!! I ACTUALLY MADE MY DEBUT POSTING !!! or what I consider to be debut to another poster on a different topic. Please stay on your own thread until you are able to give MB advice. You have seriously sabotaged our efforts to help this woman out of her fog and out of her EA. The road to recovery is narrow enough as it is! Why would you brag about that?
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Oh, NO! 
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Oh, NO! Well it was edited out so the MODS were on top of it, but not before the WW read the anti MB advice.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Once again - thanks to you - !!! I ACTUALLY MADE MY DEBUT POSTING !!! or what I consider to be debut to another poster on a different topic. Please stay on your own thread until you are able to give MB advice. You have seriously sabotaged our efforts to help this woman out of her fog and out of her EA. The road to recovery is narrow enough as it is! Why would you brag about that? Prisca is correct. Please get yourself informed. Should an affair be revealed?
I have been letting you in on some clues to infidelity when a spouse is unwilling to be truthful. But there are a few, of course, who are honest enough to tell their spouses about an affair without being confronted. Guilt sometimes sets in right after the first sexual encounter, and it continues to build as one lie is added to another. Depression follows guilt and it's not unusual for a wayward spouse to even consider suicide as a way to escape the nightmare he or she has created. As an act of desperation, honesty is sometimes seized as a last resort, often in an effort to relieve the feelings of guilt.
From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.
Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.
But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.
It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.
It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.
It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.
After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.
The Policy of Radical Honesty is one of two rules you must follow to protect your spouse from your self-centered behavior, which includes affairs. The other rule is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). If you were to be completely honest with you spouse, and you were to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, an affair would be impossible, unless for some reason your spouse wanted you to have one.
If you knew that your affair would be discovered -- that right after having sex with your co-worker, your spouse were to find out about it -- you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair. Link to *** How should affairs end ***
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Can Not Believe
Didn't the OW create this situation - with her BAD choices and decisions. Shouldn't SHE be the one apologizing to HER son for the situation SHE created for HIM? If INDEED my husband IS THE FATHER - shouldn't SHE be the one apologizing to the other man?
Yes the other woman is more responsible than your WH, the OW should make amends. But the OW does not seem like she wants to improve her life through honesty, and I believe your WH does want to come clean. This isn't about repairing the OWs life, but establishing your WH's integrity.
And while your WH was not the primary or even a knowing actor in this deception, if in deed the BH has been, he is still an accomplice to the crime.
It's somewhat like when the members of the Madoff family had to give back the money they had made from their fathers illegal fraud, in spite of the fact that they had done no wrong, and had not been prosecuted.
How can MY husband apologize to someone HE DOES NOT KNOW - without even KNOWING if the boy is HIS?
Since no one knows for sure I would say you would only be giving the BH what your WH has now knowledge about the uncertain paternity, perhaps the BH would want to get a DNA test if he knew. Perhaps the BH would like to sue the OW for some percentage of the money he had contributed to this OCs support.
God Bless
Gamma
Last edited by Gamma; 06/07/12 07:29 PM.
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OOHHH M A N .....
I AM SO SORRY!!! PLEASE forgive me. I know NOT what I say.
See - this is what happens when you try to run with the BIG dogs. Believe me - I am BACK on the porch. Seriously.
All I can say in my defense is that I REALLY thought I KNEW what I was talking about. My life has REVOLVED around the church. (I really hate that I always feel I have to give background info - BUT)---
Because I am a pastor's daughter -- and
My best friend in college - father was a pastor to a congregation totaling at least a thousand plus tied into the university. and
My best friend between 1975 - 1980 was also a pastor to a large congregation - at least 12 - 1300 -- I have a LOT of experience with what happens in a church and how that community works.
I know what REALLY goes on. Most people may ACT pious - but they really aren't. I truly believe that to CONFESS to the church YOUR misdeeds WILL open a person up to ridicule - speculation - and notoriety. In fact - I feel I can BET on that. AND - for the REST of your life. NO GETTING AWAY FROM IT!!
I KNOW church people. And - there are more woman in church than men.
I DARE not actually name a poster - but someone asked "would your church become violent against you if you confessed your sin?"
The answer is NO - not LITERALLY - but YES - subjectively. Like a sharks with FRESH meat. You will be talked about. Your family will be also. They will be WAITING on you (and probably betting) for the next episode.
Yes - I also agree with another poster that "I have absolutely NO experience in saving marriages"
BUT I do have experience with how scandal works in the Church. ESPECIALLY if it involves the Pastor.
We want to believe everyone in church is PURE in heart. Wants ONLY the best. NOPE - not even close.
Someone else asked - "well - why are you in such a church."
Well - I would ask "when are you NOT?"
And if you have CHILDREN - as cruel as kids are ( and this I DO KNOW) - they will be SO EMBARRASSED. They will be traumatized.
BUT - I always respect the people who have been there - done that - and know what they are talking about. I was reading the thread and was actually marveling at the responses and thinking -- dammnn - these people REALLY know their business.
Up until I read that "confess to the church part."
So - I just stepped off the field back into the sandbox.
I realize that I am not even a neophyte - all I can say is that I am truly sorry if I said anything that would hinder that women's recovery - and thank you for setting me straight.
Believe me - I will be reading a LOT more before I try that again.
PEP - SORRY!!!
Take care
Can Not Believe
“Your chances of success in any undertaking can always be measured by your belief in yourself.”
Robert Collier
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Maybe you should go back to that WW and tell her you shouldn't have posted your non MB advice? You're a smart woman so you can learn up on MB and then post. 
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Hey, Cannot, no worries ... don't let it scare you off posting in the future.
Keep in mind -- a large number of us are also long time church members. A lot of us are also long term Marriage Builders, some with over a decade of experience. This is not a story we haven't heard before.
As far as being a churchgoer, I like to keep in mind what God says about our sins: confess them. I like to trust God and realize that even though some people might do wrong, doing right is still always the right choice.
Sometimes, we have to face the consequences of our actions.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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And if you have CHILDREN - as cruel as kids are ( and this I DO KNOW) - they will be SO EMBARRASSED. They will be traumatized. I was kind of glad when my mother's affair became known to the church, because it eliminated a lot of the judgment I was hearing against my dad.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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The thing is, when we stack up our personal experiences against the advice of Dr. Harley, we are taking our own non-expert opinion and putting it against a man who * has done marriage counseling for four decades * also grew up in church and was a pastor's son * has helped thousands of couples form happy marriages * has specialized in infidelity for his entire career * has a happy marriage himself, and all his children are in happy marriages He knows churches, too, he has seen a lot of things. He has an educated opinion that counts at least as much as yours, and mine. 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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The answer is NO - not LITERALLY - but YES - subjectively. Like a sharks with FRESH meat. You will be talked about. Your family will be also. They will be WAITING on you (and probably betting) for the next episode. That is one reason why this is a great way to prevent the next episode.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Sorry about all the rapid fire posts. That seems to be my posting style these days. I'm not jumping on you, just trying to offer justification for why the advice is the way it is, and why things work the way they do around here.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I know church people, too. There are several of those church people on this board, Can_Not_Believe. Markos and I are included. You are not more experienced with the church than a lot of the rest of us are. I was born and raised in a southern rural area church -- can't get more conservative and set-in-their-ways than that.
Dr. Harley's experience is that exposing your affair to your church is a GOOD thing. That has been the experience of many on this board, myself included.
Some may no longer want to have anything to do with you. That is their choice. But you will find that there are many who actually do care.
People thinking less of you because of your affair is no reason not to let the truth out and expose your deeds.
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Some of the best churchgoers I know are former waywards. They are the ones who were completely transparent about their sins after the fact. Some are on this board. You wouldn't believe how much some of these people have benefited my faith.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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The answer is NO - not LITERALLY - but YES - subjectively. Like a sharks with FRESH meat. You will be talked about. Your family will be also. They will be WAITING on you (and probably betting) for the next episode. That is one reason why this is a great way to prevent the next episode. Exactly. It is hard to fall into another affair when you know that everybody is watching you. Affairs thrive on secrecy! Kinda hard to flirt with the guy at the supermarket when you know that little ol' BobbiJean who sits on the 3rd row every Sunday is going to be calling your husband up to let him know.
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Kinda hard to flirt with the guy at the supermarket when you know that little ol' BobbiJean who sits on the 3rd row every Sunday is going to be calling your husband up to let him know. Specially if BobbiJean changed your diapers when you were a baby. Or his. Or both.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Good Morning
Everybody
I guess because growing up - the daughter of a Pastor - in a big church - and being told "all your life" - "how can I get up in the pulpit and preach if my own children are running the streets".
You learn to watch your behavior so as not to embarrass the family. Cause once the word is out - the WORD is OUT!!! It can be VICIOUS.
My church also - especially in the old days - encouraged people to "confess" their sins before the entire congregation.
I was always "APPALLED" when people actually did. Then I was privy to how people reacted and talked about the person when they were not around. It was NOT pretty.
I concluded: MY SINS WERE BETWEEN ME AND GOD. I'll confess to God - but NO WAY will I confess anything to a church congregation.
I guess because I am such a private person - this is HORRIFYING to me.
On the other hand - I know that "EXPOSURE" is the best way to STOP an affair. We have 2 situations right now in my school district:
1. A principal having an affair with the librarian in his school - whose wife works in another school. The wife called the district office to expose - and the principal was asked to resign (or be fired - he resigned). The librarian (married with 3 small children I understand) still has her job. Many people wondered and speculated why didn't SHE get fired also.
The answer:
Because HE is the one in charge - therefore has to be MORE responsible.
2. A Curriculum Specialist - my friend - who with her husband - was friendly to another co-worker (who also worked in our school) and her husband. Vacationed together and everything. The wife (my friend) found out her husband and her "FRIEND" had something going on. She told her (now ex-friend) husband - and then came to Us and actually TOLD us to spread the word about what her friend did to her - TO THE ENTIRE SCHOOL.
She was upset that her ex-friend's husband did NOT believe her.
So once again - operating under the assumption that the "MORE" you learn - the MORE you REALIZE what you DON'T know - my philosophy is to listen to the experts - the ones who have "been there" and "done that."
I always concede to the EXPERTS.
Now - since my head is still "HURTING" from the banging I got yesterday (and I REALLY thought I was giving sound advice) - I'm afraid to go back over there (the other post) and say anything.
I'm afraid my head will get "CUT OFF" this time -- SO I think I will watch from the sidelines -- and let the Experts handle that.
Yeah - I'M SCARED. I remember mentioning in another post why I am NOT a counselor - even though I am certified in 2 states.
Cause with my disposition my methods might cause someone to commit suicide.
Obviously I was RIGHT. !! So I will just do what I have been doing: Reading and Absorbing.
So - again I apologize for the fiasco and
HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!
Can Not Believe
“Your chances of success in any undertaking can always be measured by your belief in yourself.”
Robert Collier
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Hey, Cannot, no worries ... don't let it scare you off posting in the future.
Keep in mind -- a large number of us are also long time church members. A lot of us are also long term Marriage Builders, some with over a decade of experience. This is not a story we haven't heard before.
As far as being a churchgoer, I like to keep in mind what God says about our sins: confess them. I like to trust God and realize that even though some people might do wrong, doing right is still always the right choice.
Sometimes, we have to face the consequences of our actions. My marriage improved drastically after my DH got up in front of our church and confessed his affair and OC. Our church has accepted the OC fully and they love my DH even more for his honesty. I can also tell you it was the WORST moment in the life of me and my daughter. I lived through the pain and embarrassment, it didn't kill me though I wanted to RUN in the moment. People respect us for sticking it out, following God's command to confess our sins and I stood by my man. That meant a lot to him.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Gamma
You confuse me.
How can my husband make amends to someone he has no knowledge of - in a situation that happened over 30 years ago - having no idea how long this couple was married - or what the man knows - about anything - who -- 30 years ago -- mind you -- was in the military AND stationed in Hawaii?
HOW? Hire a private detective to locate him? Ask: By the way - do you know if your son is actually yours?
Gamma
I tried to find your background story - but it's too many threads.
Can you PLEASE give me a brief history of yourself?
If you are interested - I also have a story - about a son (half brother) who FOUND my father - (the pastor) when he was 54 years old. My dad at that time - 1996 - was 74.
Very quickly I will add that my father was 19 when he was involved with this woman - then went into the army (World War II) - survived the war - met my MOM and married her at age 25.
We (his children) were not threatened by him because he was BEFORE us - and we EMBRACED him. We all refer to him as our BROTHER - not half-brother. He is a VERY integral part of our lives.
It is a VERY interesting story.
Can you give me yours? PLEASE? ---
Can Not Believe
“Your chances of success in any undertaking can always be measured by your belief in yourself.”
Robert Collier
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Dang Girl --
I went back and read some of your threads from 800+ threads ago.
You really went through a lot. I am so HAPPY for YOU that you came through everything, and that today you are blessed and highly favored by God.
I guess with your circumstances - going the church route was the best thing for you.
Know what upsets me to NO end - the hardships people endure in dealing with child support - especially when you have children yourself.
Reading threads about child support would get me so ANGRY that there were times tears came to my eyes from the sheer INJUSTICE of it -- and I had to remind myself that this was years ago - I don't KNOW these people - and I prayed that circumstances had changed for these people.
I remember once I was railing to my husband about the jeopardy he put us in with disease and possible child support - and he had to remind me that -- it didn't happen to us -- It didn't happen! and I would just have to shake it off.
I SO admire LYNN G - cause she was the first to say - "Get child support for your children" set them up FIRST.
Some people did NOT follow that advice - and came to REGRET that they didn't.
Anyway - I just want you to know that I really appreciate your taking taking the time to communicate with me. I'm sorry this visitation thing is still so stressful to you.
I have read a lot of threads were people tried the visits - and had to stop in order to preserve the nuclear family.
Like I told my husband - I know ULTIMATELY it's your decision and I would NEVER tell you you can't have contact with YOUR own child - BUT - it is also my ONE life - and I get to choose how I will live it.
Believe me -- I employed (as best I could) -- MB philosophies after I calmed down a little. But my husband and I were always close - affectionate - and spent time together.
I have had to remind him in school - please don't call me "sweetie" or "Hon" in front of staff and students. He slips ALL THE TIME. People generally just tease us when he does.
PEP calling me out -- and -- me reflecting on the past so much since then has really reminded me that I am still BLESSED and highly favored by GOD that my situation evolved the way that it did.
Why?
Because the Lord IS my Shepherd - and I shall NOT want.
Can Not Believe
Last edited by Can_Not_Believe; 06/08/12 02:25 PM.
“Your chances of success in any undertaking can always be measured by your belief in yourself.”
Robert Collier
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