To everyone except Mary .....

Isn't it truly amazing how people can wrongly think that lying to their spouse is a way to build love and intimacy?

No one took marriage vows saying: "I promise to lie to you so you can still love me and remain married to me."

It's absurd. Illogical. Wayward fog-babble. Yet, we see it everyday. The wayward script. But "this time" it's "different" because the rest of us just don't understand.
:::: scratching head ::::

Oh Mary.

You can make a million reasons for why you can't do this or that, but the reality of it is this:

He divorced his adulterous wife and mother of his child, didn't he. You are his wife of 3.5 years with 3 affairs to claim so far. If he knew the truth, he'd divorce you and tell people why.

You don't want to tell him who the real Mary is. Because the real Mary is someone he will not want to be with. So you wish to deceive him into falling in love with the "Mary" that you want him to think you are. Not who you are. But who you want to be. Same for your church. Mary is the preacher's wife. Mary is also the adulterous preacher's wife who has had emotional affairs with married men from her congregation. Ouch.

How long are you going to continue to live this facade and deceive everyone around you from knowing the real you.

And yet, he may not divorce you. There is hope here. Bring him here.

Mary, did your husband lie to you about having a child and an ex-wife?
If he did not try to hide the facts from you, then Mary, you chose to marry him knowing the facts. You went into this eyes wide open.

Then, you have the audacity to complain about the lack of exclusivity in your marriage when you have had several secret EAs

You're sounding mighty foolish, dear Mary.
I think you can see that.

Translation: I am unwilling to give up my secret second life and unwilling to become radically honest.

Dishonesty is what has led you to stray three times now. Dishonesty has become a way of life for you and it will be a hard habit to break. The fact that you don't acknowledge that in all of your excuses just shows me how foggy you really are.

With dishonesty you have been and are continuing to:
~ lovebust your BH
~ fail to meet your BH's need for O&H
~ not give your BH the information he needs to protect himself
~ not give your BH the information he needs in order to do marriage building work, should he choose to stay in this marriage
~ breed incompatibility in the M

the list goes on and on and on....

It is all laid out in the articles on this site just how very important radical honesty is. The rest of it such as "working on boundaries" does not matter if you are unwilling to be honest.

I couldn't agree more, Pep and I heard it from my WH so many times.


I was scratching my head as to why he spent so much time online, or his phone, why he was so maddeningly distant. So depressed and hopeless.

Whenever I asked him what was wrong he would only give me 'part truth' usually the part I already knew. He would reply: 'The problem is that you're not happy'. 'I might be if you told me what was wrong' I'd reply. Then he'd cry and say he couldn't hurt me and that it was all my fault he was in this mess.

'I don't want to hurt you'

'I don't want to emotionally blackmail you'

'I don't think you really care or want to know'

But I did and so I found out on my own. When I discovered the truth it was a huge relief. I kept it quiet for a week while I planned exposure and Plan A and Plan B in which I would kick him out unless I saw full repentance.

He slept with my best friend and he told her he loved her. He had told her eveything about me down to the most intimate details of our life together.

But the very very worst thing he did was patronise me with lies so I would stay home ignorant like his pet dog.

You will be called out when you are being deceptive here, MM.

Starting on page 2 of this thread:


And your dishonesty has been addressed in post after post after post before and after this one.

Nobody has "made it clear" that "boundaries are the bigger issue." Please stop it.

Good boundary: transparency and historical honesty with your spouse
Poor boundary: hiding things from your spouse

Compare that to what I posted earlier about boundaries and affairs.

Mary, I'm whispering to you as a friend here, and I'm speaking to you as a guy who got into an affair with another church member. I've dealt with what you're dealing with, and I tried to deal with it (at first) just the very way you're dealing with it, and I didn't come away unharmed. Maybe that's not what you want to hear, but it's what you need to hear.

So listen up and read every word I'm about to say. I don't get a penny for saying any of it, and I'm not even sure you're worth the trouble, but here goes:

At one point, it was the last thing I thought could ever happen. I thought I'd never have an affair. My wife & I liked each other. I'd always been squeaky-clean, a "boy-scout." But ... well, read my story. Read my posts. Maybe start with this one http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2461619#Post2461619 and work backwards. 'Cuz this is exactly where you're headed if you don't fess up to your husband now.

By the time I realized I was in an emotional affair, and where it was heading, I tried to break it off the way you're trying it: Without fessing up to my wife, or to my friends, about what I'd been struggling with, and without cutting off all avenues of contact. Listen to me, because I've slid down the path you're on, and I see where it leads & where you're headed.

You're about to trash your life & your husband's life, because you're too proud to admit to him what's really up, and because you're too selfish to foreclose the sense of "possibility," the thrill of attention from the other man. Ma'am, that's all it is: selfishness. (And I was just that selfish, so I've got every right & all the standing I need to call you out on it.)And you might think you're in-control and that it can't happen to YOU and that you're better than that... all just like I thought.

I didn't think it was selfish at the time, either. I thought fate had put me in unique circumstances. I thought it was love. Not at first, mind you. It was just neat having someone else to talk with. And she liked talking with me and eventually, confiding in me. I started to think she was special. And she actually wasn't anything special, and can't hold a candle to my wife in any way that matters, and actually, this other woman had some pretty glaring character issues (which was by definition, or else she wouldn't have been trying to spend time alone with me); but at the time, I chose not to see it objectively, and convinced myself that the usual rules didn't apply to me.

I didn't imagine the feelings I'd feel, weeks later, after the affair (that had become full-blown), afterwards when I started to come to my senses -- after the other woman's husband found out (which forced me to fess up, and much, much too late). I didn't imagine how hurt my wife would be if she found out. I could've imagined, but I didn't want to. I was willfully blind. Go read the link I pasted above and read about my wife's pain, in her own words. Read about where willful blindness leads a family. And tell me what you think of that. I wanna hear your reaction, here on this site. Imagine yourself & your husband there.

Bottom-line, where you're at: You're willing & plotting to preserve an ongoing deception over your husband with regard to your feelings and actions, in order to preserve your relationship with the other man. If you can't admit that to yourself, no matter, because you just admitted it to us. And you don't even see how crazy & F'd up that is? Really? You don't see it?

Look: I won't waste much more of my time with you unless you're serious about ending it the right way. If you're open to that, then you can ask me any question, and I'll never do you the disservice of a sugarcoated answer.

I saved my marriage, along with a huge dose of slack from my wife, and we've made it better than before.
You can save your marriage & make it better than ever, too. But not the way you're aiming to go about it.

But his, and your, most important relationship is your marriage. Why would you take a second seat to his job? And why would he allow that?

Because you want a marriage that is built upon secrets, deception and lies. Okay, got that. That's really what you want?

It's very charitable-sounding that you want to protect your BH from the truth. But that makes it very clear that, in reality, you want to dodge accountability while you try to appear to be concerned about your husband. If you were truly concerned, you wouldn't have had the EAs in the first place.

Then why are you here?

Sorry, but I think it's worth repeating for emphasis:

When someone is thinking like that & doesn't even realize how completely screwed up it is to be thinking like that & not to realize how screwed-up it is, then the emotional affair isn't merely "brewing" -- it's fully cooked & boiling over. A full-fledged marriage-destroyer, if you don't act decisively to kill it.

So you told your BH everything tonight, correct? How did it go?

DH and I talked tonight, and I shared this EA with him and asked for His forgiveness. He asked several questions, and I was happy to answer all of them - very truthfully. I did not use unmet ENs as an excuse but took full responsibility for my bad decisions. I am truly sorry and have taken steps to cut off all contact w/OM.

The irony in all this is that I realized my coming here to pour out my heart to strangers is every bit as much a betrayal as pouring out my heart and attention to that OM. I should have turned first to the One who has the ultimate ability to help me...and then to my loving DH. My focus and prayer is that He will provide the face-to-face help and accountability I need.

God loves for us to seek counsel, but He still asks that we keep Him first. I did not do that...neither in my decision to reach out to OM, nor in my decision to share my struggle here on MB. Though I approached this all out of sequence, I'm still grateful. You guys have answered my initial questions and then some. Thank you graciously.

I am confident that continued discussions w/DH and working towards our marriage will lead us to full restoration and a heightened commitment to our vows and our relationships with God. The beauty of these situations is that God uses them - if we allow Him - to help lift up somebody else who's struggling along their path of marriage.

Consider this matter closed as I am turning to the Father and to real-life counsel and accountability to walk with me through healing. Thank you again and God bless you all.

**edit**

OK, signing off for real now...

Wrong way round, Mary. No one, most of all you, should care about helping you right now. Instead we need to help your BH who is doubtless bleeding on the floor right now.

Your honesty has prevented further wounds and applied some balm for his injury but he is still doubtless in extreme pain. You donnt make any mention of his pain, which I find alarming.

You need to send him here so we can help him, and you must also in the interests of Radical Honesty show him this thread. Then it won't be a betrayal will it? You are right that its a betrayal to keep things hidden, so let's bring everything into the light shall we?

The path to recovery from this point is very narrow. Your husbands wounds will need an NC letter to the OM, complete transparency, such as all passwords and accounting for your time.

You both need guidance as to how to implement a recovery plan, and you are not the person to do it Mary as you are still deep in the fog, primarily concerned with yourself.

Call the counselling centre if either you or BH objects to talking to 'strangers on the internet'. The important thing is that you follow MB principles.

MM, I don't know about you, but I've never heard God speak directly to me in answer to questions. No burning bushes, I should say. What He does is provide us with tools to use in life, and He expects us to use them.

You might consider that God guided you here. Whether to the forum or to MB in general is irrevelant. There are tools that can be used to build an incredible marriage here, Mary.

But what posters are trying to express to you is that you can't simply turn in and BOOM! start rebuilding the marriage without fixing the underlying damage. Your honesty with your BH was one of the critical first steps, but there are others that need to be taken. An NC letter to the OM - to all 3 OM - is another.

Imagine if you will, last night you woke your BH up and told him your house was on fire - a fire you started - and you had to get out immediately. Woken from a sound sleep, your BH was confused - he had no idea what was going on around him. Your BH stood by helplessly and watched your house burn. In the morning, the smoke has cleared and the two of you decide to rebuild. You wouldn't try to rebuild until you were completely assured that the fire had gone out, would you? You would make sure that the faulty wiring that started the fire was repaired, wouldn't you? You would clean up the burnt timbers and prepare the foundation before you began slapping up new lumber, wouldn't you?

The tools provided here are exactly what you need in your toolbox to get that work started. If that's not divine intervention, I don't know what is. Maybe all He's asking is that you pick up the tools He's given to you.

Exactly.

Bring your husband here.

Hey Mary when you're ready to help your husband to start trusting you again, we will be here.

You have told him you are untrustworthy - which is the truth - but you don't have any plan to show him future trustworthyness

You don't have a plan to heal him. In fact you think the plan is for HIM to heal YOU!!!

Having stabbed him in the heart, you expect him to clean up his own blood and then wipe off the splatters you got on yourself.

Your pain, your guilt are very great. But they won't go away while you think only of yourself and your ENs. When you have helped undo what you have done, only then will you feel better.

Help him by showing him this thread and getting him the help he needs here at MB.