Ok, that's what sticks out for me.

Seriously think about what she is saying to you: I want you but only if my other thing doesn't work out first.

I think she's still in contact, or was up until very recently, at least. But I don't see how you can or cannot verify that if you don't have a keylogger on her work computer or a VAR in her car. I'd turn that house and car upside down looking for a cell phone.

After this amount of time, I would expect her to be shifting back towards you assuming that you are eliminating LBs and getting the UA time in.

Well, another interesting (good) development. Last night my W went out with a couple of girlfriends. Before she left she came downstairs and hung out with me for 30 minutes and we talked while I worked out. She then gave me a kiss goodbye on the lips before she left which these days has been pretty rare. We texted a few times throughout the evening which is something we would not have done prior to the affair and she actually called me just to check in. OK, things are going pretty good so a crash around 10:30, she gets home at 12:00, hops into bed and puts her arm around me and starts to go to sleep. Long story short we were intimate.

We didn't talk to much about it in the morning as I don't want to place to much focus on it as we still have a long way to go. She can also be all over the board at times so by no means do I think that she is "back" and totally committed to make our M work. That said, I'll take it as a positive and as an affirmation that some of the stuff I am doing is having a positive effect.

I'd agree with that.

But, you knew there was a but, I'd still verify just what is going on. I understand you don't want to do a keylogger, but spyware on a phone would be a requirement for me as would a recorder in her car.

Who were these friends that she went out with? Are they supporters of the marriage or the "just whatever makes you happy, hon" crowd?

Keep up the good work, though, but get yourself some information so you aren't so much in the dark as to verifying NC.

I'd like to be wrong but I think the little crack addict got her fix and is happy again...for the moment.

Please SS1, make sure you are aware of who she is with and verifying!! And not by asking her friends if she was with them, they will lie for her. You could have followed her or put a VAR in her car or had a PI or friend keep track of her.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but you lack the tools to be sure she was with girlfriends

Both friends are married and I have known them for many years so I do believe that they would be supporters of our M but I can't guarantee it.

Also, keylogger is not an option because she is NEVER on a computer at home. It's all about her phone which she has given me access to. I check every so often and have yet to find anything suspicious and in speaking to the OMW a few days ago she also confirmed that she was not aware of any contact. Finally, when she was in her A and I had zero proof my gut told me she was cheating, my gut now tells me that she is not but I will continue to snoop (I guess I have some trust issues - wonder why).

My W did not handle her A very well either. She couldn't sleep or eat and she was quite miserable to be around. She now sleeps and eats well and for the most part it is nice to be around her again. I don't know what is in her head but if I had to guess she is struggling with what she has done and dealing with the strong feeling that she allowed to develop for the OM. I have never cheated so I can only guess as to what that would be like. I've often wondered if she is strong enough to move forward and truly deal with what she has done or will she remain stuck,shut down, and not able to open her heart to me again. I don't know. Are there any waywards out there that can help me understand where my W is at (assume NC)?

Who knows, I may try to kiss her tonight and she may back away. It seems like there are times she is open to me and others when she is not. That is what I meant by being all over the board.

Hi RQ,

I saw her friend pick her up and her other friend called out to me when she was on the phone with me. Also, the OM lives 4 states away and the OMW has promised to let me know if and when they come into town. Now does that mean that she couldn't have called him while she was with them, even used their phones, I don't know.

Understood. But spyware will let you actually *read* those text messages that are sent. So, while the phone records may show texts and calls to "Jane", the spyware may show that those calls are really to "Jim" who is, conveniently, saved under Jane's name.

Well, that's how my FWW did it and she was acting fairly normal all the while. Once you're busted, you kind of learn what to do to avoid getting caught a second time.

Just verify this, ok?

And, for the record, we all hope that we're wrong here and that things are turning around. We're just passing on our own experience in the hopes that you won't make the same mistakes that we did.

I agree. This just screams of contact some where. I would up your snooping and your UA time.

Exactly

OK, it�s been awhile since my last post. Long story short, the W and I both agreed to �just live� for a few weeks and not dwell on the A. We both needed to put some time behind us so that both of us can move forward. Meaning, my W was/is still going through withdrawal and I was/am having trust issues. Trust goes deeper than is she still in contact with OM. I find myself at times not trusting her motives, or reading into and analyzing what she says to find the hidden meaning. I do not do this all the time but there are moments when something she says or acts in a way that reminds me of the A and I feel myself pulling away or committing LB�s. Also, my W tells me that she has a ton of guilt and that she feels stupid but also states that she too has triggers that remind her of the OM and still at times feels sad when she thinks about him. Also, she has stated that she would never speak to him again and she doesn�t feel like she even knows who he is anymore after all that�s happened and the time that has gone by (56 days of NC).

This is hard. Everyone said it would be hard but you really don�t get it until you�re in it. One day you feel good, hopeful, and confident and the next day some trigger brings you right back to the beginning.

So what happened is that while my W has been trying very hard to be transparent I feel as if it is me that is now sabotaging our R with LB�s. It seems like once a week a trigger will make me question her in a way that causes her to get frustrated and pull away from me. When I discussed this with her she told me that she feels trapped and that she can�t be herself. She doesn�t want to bring her phone to the bedroom when she goes to bed early because she is worried what I will think (she was right). She feels like she has to reply to my emails within minutes or I will start to question her, etc. So this is where I am looking for some help. How do you let it go and begin to trust again? In order for us to reconnect we both need to be happy with ourselves but neither one of can truly be ourselves because we are so worried about the other person. My W worrying all the time about how she should act and what I'm thinking and me worrying all the time about her motives and contacting OM.

On a final note, we have been communicating way more than we have been in the past, talking at night, emailing/texting throughout the day, etc. We have also been spending as much time alone as we can although it is tough with work and two kids! Also, while she will not commit to the MB program she will discuss things like EN�s with me and her number one EN is affection however that is the toughest one for me to meet as she is not always open to letting me meet it. We were intimate twice last week although I think we both felt more physically than emotionally connected. Any thoughts, comments, and advice are truly welcome as I feel that we are at a critical time and as I write this I am more hopeful then I have ever been.

SS1, A few questions for you

- Does she have a list of EP's?

- Have you give her a list of requirements (such as no cell phone in bedroom, transparency, etc.)?

-Have you filled out the EN questionnares? The Lovebuster questionairres? Has she read any of the books?

I think once you know what is expected out of both of you from the get-go, then you you can work on fulfilling those obligations to each other and prevent any love-busting. She should be sticking to your list of requirements and EP's as just compensation. I think you are on the right path but I think you need to be clearer to her on what is expected and you need to stop your love-busting, buster. When she does something that fills an EN, praise her and let her know happy it makes you. And try to not question her motives. Revel in the fact that she is there with you and trying.

I believe you are spot on RQ. It's time to revisit getting her on board with the MB program as the answer to all of your questions in no. Is there a book that you would recommend we start with?

The MB program will help tremendously in guiding you both.

Read "Surviving an Affair" to start with. Then I would suggest "His Needs Her Needs" and then "Lovebusters". You can print the questionnaires right off this site to get you started.

Are you familiar with what EP's she should have and what requirements you want?

Yes I am familiar with the EP's however I need to compile my own requirements. I'm going to try to put them together over the weekend! Thanks, I'll check back in a few days and best of luck to you RQ.

Great, let me know how it goes.

Take care and thanks for the luck!

Here's an example of a requrement list

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=2153013

Here's another Extraordinary Precautions

And THAT was the one I was looking for! Jeez, Brain, you rock. From now on I'll just mention a link and wait for you to provide it

Anytime for you my friend.