I really don't even know where to start. DH and I have been married for 13 1/2 years. The last year, has been spent separated. He asked to separate last summer because he was unhappy with himself, angry at God, and wanted to pursue a relationship (started as an affair) with an 18 yr old girl he worked with at the time.

We told our boys (12 and 10) about the separation the top of January, because we reached a point where we knew things weren't going to change or work out. At the end of February, he begged and pleaded with me for a chance to save our marriage. Mind you, he is still with this girl, who is now 19 (he's 32). I decided to give him a chance, with the requirement that he end things with the girl before we could even start working on things.

He refused and refused to end things with her, so I told him to forget it after two and a half months, because I couldn't take the emotional strain and pain any longer. This did not set well with him at all. He says that he loves me, can't lose me, doesn't want to live without me, etc. So, I decided that I would wait for him while still living my life and moving towards divorce, because I thought it was just a phase of emotions he was going through.

Last week, things ended with the girl. Sort of. They still flirt, still talk, still hang out, but he says they are not "together" and won't work things out. I have told him that I need time and proof of his actions in order to begin moving forward on "us", but that I don't feel like I will be able to as long as she is in the picture still, even as a "friend". He has said that he understands my fears and concerns, but if I will just be patient and wait for him, things will fully end there.

To be honest, I've been patiently waiting for the love of my life to come home for a long time now. I have been so hurt and broken, that I'm not sure I have the energy for patience anymore. Either he wants to be with me and will do what it takes, or he doesn't and will continue his mess, right?

The weird part. When we were talking on the phone the other day, he said that he wants to go ahead and go through with a divorce, even though he wants to try and work things out, counseling and all, after he has completely finished things with the girl. I don't know what to make of that!! If we're going to try and work things out, correctly, then why follow through with a divorce???

His explanation is that he wants to take everything to ground zero and start completely fresh, and build a whole new foundation for our relationship. I don't know if that's just a line or what! It confuses me to no end, because the week before he was freaking out at the thought of divorce.

Has anyone else ever heard of this ideology?? I would love nothing more than to be whole again with my love, but I do not know what to make of this. The self-protection part of me wants to turn and run away, but I love him too much to not give us a fair chance.

I know ya'll aren't in his head, so you don't know what's really going on in his mind. I guess I just needed to vent the confusion and see if anyone else has done or heard of this.

BTW, he is still very angry with God. It breaks my heart, because he was a pastor for ten years, who truly loved God with all of his heart. He is a sex addict that is angry because God hasn't set him free, no matter how much he has begged and pleaded with God. I don't know how to get through to him on that part, other than living as a Child of God and loving him unconditionally.

God has very clearly spoken to me from the beginning of all this, "Just speak Love". I am really, really trying, but it is so hard sometimes when the flesh wants to speak anger, pain, and resentment.

I would greatly appreciate your prayers in this matter!! Thank you

Welcome Beckers to Marriage Builders and I'm sorry for what has brought you here.

Your WH is involved in an affair and they act like drug addicts. The affair is their drug.

If you want to fight for your marriage Dr. Harley has very tight steps on what to take to fight the affair.

The first thing you need to do is to expose this affair. At their job and to your family and friends and to the OW's family and friends.

Please read. Exposure 101

Is she on facebook? Can you go on there and make a copy of all her contacts and save them for later.

Please read this and come back and ask us questions.
How To Survive an Affair

I would also hit notify and ask the MODS to move your thread to the SAA forum so you can get more help.

I haven't heard that particular story, but when someone is committing adultery, openly while married, regardless of the pain and suffering they are causing to the person to whom they swore in front of God and family to protect....well, they usually come up with some very twisted logic to justify their behavior. It's much easier to make others feel like they are the crazy ones than to extricate one's self from the grip of detestable behavior (because it's actually really fun to conduct one's self in such a way).

If you really want to save your marriage, and perhaps your sanity, Beckers, you will want to stick around and hear what folks on these boards have to say. Do it for Beckers. Read everything you can about adultery by starting with Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. Read the Basic Concepts here and everything you can about what you've been going through - if you're like most of us, you didn't realize just how devastating it truly is to have your spouse reject you for the fruits of another (and then continue the abuse by coming back for whatever it was that the OtherPerson couldn't offer; like stability and motherhood). Become educated and grow from this horrendous experience, I advise.

Do it for your children (you wouldn't want them to grow up and repeat this behavior in their marriages would you? You wouldn't want them to do this to your grandchildren, right?). They must go through the learning process with you. They are terribly confused right now and you can help them by trying to make sense of it. Dr. Harley has a firm grasp on what adultery is, and how marriages work (and how they don't work). You have an opportunity to teach them something they are most certainly not getting from their adulterous, lying, cheating, weak, irresponsible father.

one more thing:
I am not familiar with the concept that God condones unconditional love. I would challenge you to think about this in much more depth. Research it. There are several articles here. There is also a book called "Boundaries" which addresses the subject very nicely. I believe you can be a child of God without subjecting yourself to loving someone unconditionally.

~optimism

opt brought up an excellent point.

Please read this. What's Wrong with unconditional love #1

What's wrong with Unconditional love #2

Please listen to this excellent radio clip about exposure.

Radio clip on exposure and what to do with an affair

I knew you'd come through for me with the links Brainy. You Rock!

BEckers, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that bring you here. Part of the reason the affair has gone on so long is because it has been kept secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so by keeping it a secret, you have kept the affair alive. Therefore the first step is expose the affair wide and far in a strategic, organized way. It may be too late, but it is your best shot at saving your marriage.

Exposure is your best weapon against the affair and it also helps your spouse see how crazy and irresponsible he is when he is forced to explain himself to others.

This is step one. The next step is Plan B. Please go read the thread that is linked in my signature to learn about exposure. Then come back here and we can help you plan.

And please read the articles linked by Brainhurts about unconditional love. This is not a Biblical concept and can be found nowhere in the Bible. As you can see, your unconditional love has only served to enable evil in this situation.

here

No, sweetie. I'm sorry, but things have not ended with the OW.

This is all fog-babble. Please don't get caught up in trying to figure out what he's thinking. He's an addict. Their thinking is twisted and self-serving. Sure he was. He is conflicted. He wants it all, just like it has been. If he wants to break free of his sex addiction, he's going to have to get on the stick and break free. Why is he whining to God about it? God has already given him the tools to quit his addiction. He just has to pick up the tools. Lazy man.
Poor old God gets blamed for more crap in this world that His humans made for themselves. Sigh. I don't believe God requires you to love him 'unconditionally'. And I don't believe God's entirely happy that this particular human of His is visiting such pain and misery on at least three of His other humans - you and your children. Unconditional love is his free pass to continue to sin.

Beckers, some of the most loving words my wife has ever spoken to me were the ones in the second quote below in red text.

I question the premise of your thread title. Your husband's actions don't say that he wants to work things out. His actions say that you're his second choice. His sudden renewal of interest in this marriage of yours is all of a week old (since things allegedly went south with the other woman, he's opted for you); and on top of that, he's still telling you he wants a divorce? That sounds to me like codespeak for "I'd like the freedom to bounce around between the two of you (and anyone else whom I might meet in some bar or alley) with no hard feelings."

It's not unloving for you to declare what you won't stand for. In Luke 6:29, Christ says we should turn the other cheek, but He doesn't say we have to stand within punching distance of someone whose behavior clearly signals the intention to hurt us. As long as your husband is asking for a divorce & freedom to play the field, and as long as there is a speck of the other woman in his life, that signals 'danger' for you. Insist on actions from him; his words are no good.

Thank you everyone. I will read through the links on unconditional love. I guess I'm not explaining it well. Even though he has done these very hurtful things, I still have love for him and want nothing more than to see him happy and healed. No matter what, he is still my best friend. That will not change. So, that is my meaning for "unconditional love".

I do tell him exactly where I stand and what I think about the things he is doing. He hasn't been able to "have his cake and eat it too", because I refuse to be caught up in that situation. Instead, I just wait and am there to talk to him when he wants to talk. Actually, he showed up last night to talk. He saw OW yesterday afternoon and she told him that things are officially over between them. I did not ask for details, because that just tortures me. But, I did encourage him to find help, peace, and healing so that he can finally figure out what he really wants.

As far as exposure goes, that was taken care of after we told the boys in January. Everyone knows how things started and what he has been doing. There is no hiding anything about their relationship. In fact, his Facebook is full of pictures and messages back and forth together. Before she blocked me from seeing her profile, I copied every message in their private messages, pictures of them together, and messages from her friends that condone their actions (yes, they know but don't care). Her parents know as well, but think he's the greatest guy on the planet, INSANE!!

With our friends and family though, they are pretty upset by it all. Most have completely stopped talking to him or are very short with him. Several have even deleted him as a friend so that they don't have to see the pictures of them together anymore. They are all completely sick over his actions. His mom won't even call him or talk to him.

Last night he did admit to being a very confusing person lately and apologized for not knowing what he really wants. He is very frustrated with the lost feeling he has come to know. I constantly encourage him to get counseling and have even told him that he should probably be single while he works on himself. He asked if I would go to counseling with him and have agreed. It hasn't started yet though, because his job has had him on the road for the past three weeks.

@maritalbliss - It really upsets me that God catches the blame all the time too. I wish people would take responsibility for their actions!! Any time that DH tries to go off about how God is to blame, I remind him that he made the choices to give in to temptation each time he has failed. I also remind him that God does not force our actions, we are responsible for our own choices. He always ends up admitting that I am right, but then turns to "God has nothing good for me in life. I'm glad He does for you, just wish He loved me enough to do the same for me." It's full of self pity and utterly pathetic. At that point, I tend to tell him to grow up and quit acting like he's five. I'm hardly ever blunt or stern with him like that, so it usually takes him by surprise and makes him think for a while. Over the past year though, I have been so blunt and stern about things, I didn't know I had that in me! It's scary.

***BTW, this is not his first affair. It's just the one that he finally walked out during and took public.

If you study the Basic Concepts (link at top of this page) you will find out about Love Banks (how much love you feel for someone and why) Love Busters (how people can ding their account in someone else's love bank), Emotional Needs (what makes you feel love for someone in your love bank) and how to Survive Infedelity....the narrow path of steps you need to take in order to maybe recover your marriage from the nightmare.

You love your husband and think he is your best friend and things will never change because he has a high balance in your Love Bank from meeting your Emotional Needs over the years.

If OW supposedly broke it off with him. Ask him to write a NC letter. No contact letter samples

Since this isn't his first affair. Do you want to give him another chance?If he can't live with boundaries and hold to his EPs he will keep repeating the affairs.

Set firm boundaries with him. Do you want to continue down the same path?

If he can't live a completely transparent life and affair proof his M. Will he do this?
A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

Unfortunately, going to counseling is not going to do much for your marriage. Since this is not his first rodeo, it is going to take a massive personal change in his habits and your lifestyle to prevent a repeat. Otherwise, you are looking at a lifestyle of enduring his adultery. He is a serial cheater and it will take extraordinary efforts to recover.

Most marriages do not ever recover from affairs unless they take very specific steps. A marriage counselor does not have the slightest idea how to recover from an affair. This is where Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, differs. His speciality is recovering marriages after an affair. I would strongly advise you to follow his plan if you are serious about saving your marriage. If you don't recover this marriage using these steps, I predict you are facing more affairs.

I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program in it. Here are the steps outlined by Dr Harley:

here

I would give her parents a personal phone call and ask them to persuade their skanky daughter to leave your husband alone.

The most important first step in recovery is ensure your husband never sees or speaks to the OW again. How will he ensure that? I would have him eliminate his facebook account and open up his life to you. He will have to change his life in a way that would not enable him to carry on an affair. He will have to make a radical 180 degree change in his lifestyle, up to and including agreeing to never spend the night apart again. Here is what Dr Harley says about sending a no contact letter:

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

I am reading through everything right now and taking it all in. All of the steps so far are things that I have wanted to do, or have done already, but have been too scared to fully follow through on. Reading these articles has me in tears, with my heart overflowing for my DH. That happens a lot. I have tried to act on that overflowing feeling a couple of times, but the OW has always been in the way, blocking him from seeing what I am trying to give him.

By nature, I am a Giver. Through all of this though, the Taker has shown its head a few times. I really do not like the Taker. DH is naturally a Giver as well, but the Taker has fully taken over his life. He hates it.

I can say, that even though we have not fully started on our path of recovery, DH has become completely open and honest with me over the past few months. He has come clean about everything in the past, answers any questions that I ask, and talks to me very deeply and transparently. This a huge step for him, because he tends to hold things inside or straight up lie about them. His relationship with the OW has been based on nothing but lies, made up history, and so on. His relationship with me the past few months has been filled with complete honesty. This is very encouraging to me, but it confuses him.

The other part that confuses him, is that I meet all of his needs (this is what he has said), but he still really enjoys time with other girls. He hates that about himself and wants to change, but he says he doesn't know where to start or how to do it. This is why I suggested counseling. He has agreed, but is very hesitant. He actually told me, "You're all the counselor that I need. I can tell you anything, and know that you will not hold it against me, but lovingly reprimand me and point me in the right direction." He has also apologized for not taking the direction I get him to see, because he's still so drawn in the other direction.

I really appreciate all of the links and information!! He is actually getting to work closer to town this week, so he'll be around a lot more. I will make a point of sitting down with him and going over a lot of this. Ultimately though, it is his decision. I cannot and will not force him into anything. I love him and do NOT want to lose him, but I will not make him stay. He has to want this, or it won't work.

In the meantime, I am going to pull out some bravery and keep pouring out the overflow of my heart, even though it scares me to death. He is worth it and is so much greater than what he has been seeing in himself over the past few years. I really wish that he could see what I see!!!!

Have you explained to him that you (or, better yet, the two of you) will need to expose the affair and disclose your WH's sex addiction before you will allow him back into your life?

Beckers, ultimately it is YOUR decision to stay in a crippled marriage. You have a choice. You have already lost him. There is nothing here to save unless he makes radical changes in his behavior. If you lower the bar, he will live down to your expectations and your marriage will never recover. If he won't make the decision to do everything possible to make amends and dramatically change his behavior, you will end up in divorce anyway, via a long slow road of a death of a thousand cuts.

Unless he takes serious steps towards earning your forgiveness and giving you just compensation, your marriage will not recover. You have to choose if you are going to stay in marriage that is full of abuse or if you are going to leave.

Here is the discussion you should have with him if you are serious about saving your marriage. If not, you should just file for divorce now.

Ask him to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA]

Set him down and explain to him that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless, abusive marriage. Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you safe:

1. end all contact with the OW for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!

An adulterer is not worth it, Beckers. That is silly talk. There is nothing good about an adulterer. Adultery is evil. Your husband can become a good man if he dramatically changes his behavior, but pretending he is something he is not does not help him or you. So please be realistic here and stop this kind of talk.

Help him BECOME a good man. Raise the bar and help him raise his standards. Don't lower the bar to make a bad man feel good.