I was here last Sept.1998 when I had found out from my h about him and the ow. He said it was only emotional not physical... I posted a couple of times and then had to leave the site because of the pain and turmoil I saw here. It was too much to bear, I couln't move forward because with every broken heart mine broke again. My h is not the only one to blame during the time he had his thing I crossed the line also. He knows about it and we've been trying to heal our marriage. Or I have he's been ignoring that anything had ever happened. I've tried to let it all go but the ghost of the past haunt me, and when they overwhelm me I snoop. I have found more evidence or possible evidence that something is still going on between him an the ow. He always denies it and gets agravated that I bring it up. We had a long discussion Sun. night and he says I am the one he wants to spend the rest of his life with, but he did agree with me that there was a wall between us. Is that wall her, is it my failure to let the past go. How can I let it go when he doesn't. I have listened to the his needs her needs tapes and read many books but I am truly still at a loss. How can I continue depositing units in his love bank when I think he is still seeing her? Please help....<BR>

Hi Faith:<BR>This is the same conversation I have been having with my husband...he swears to me its all over with OW...but...I told him that I will always doubt him...after all...I just can't forget months and months of lies...OW left the job just last saturday...she worked for him...I told him I didn't believe it was all over with him and OW and he told me to stop obsessing because it is...they used to have the same day off, Mondays, but now he tells me she got a different job M-F 9:00-5:00....I really am hoping this will put a stop to that relationship....I snoop too....and always will...but he is very neat and tidy...and if he is continuing I may never catch him...I will keep an eye on his cologne...she has given him cologne as gifts and I never noticed before...until now...I emptied most of them in the sink...I will buy him the cologne I like..........unfortunately.......most of us will continue to snoop around.....because we just don't trust them anymore.....that's the price they pay for infidelity.......

Hi Faith<P>I think alot of of this trust depends on the remorse and comitment you see in your spouse. At some time you just realize that it has to be over because everything feels right. For me, my W calls when ever she shows up at a place and before she leaves. I see the pain in her eyes and she acknowledge the pain she has caused. So.. for now I feel confident that the affair is over and the trust will slowly come back. But I will never have blind trust. I will never take advatage of my marriage either and I will never endure this kind of pain again too.<P>So keep your eyes and heart open. Talk and listen. Set realistic relationship goals and live life to the fullest. <P>Good Luck<BR>_____________________________________________<BR>"Better to die on your feet than live on your knees"

Ya wanna know what I think? Okay, I'll tell ya:<P>It is perfectly okay to keep worrying about whether your H is still involved with the OW. That is the natural process of healing. The trust is probably the last thing that will come back, and I don't think it will <B>ever</B> come back fully.<P>What your H have to realize is that they must accept that you will not be trusting. I don't think he has any right really to tell you that you should stop obsessing, or being suspicious.<P>Also, if you are suspicious and have certain evidence, then go with your instinct. In the case of this type of addiction, many betrayers just don't have the strength to go cold turkey without any kind of contact. And once it starts again, it's awfully hard to stop.<P>--andy

hi faith,<BR>Snooping and grilling the h are lovebusters, plain and simple. But I can understand the need to know. SO, either you will have to get the proof you need thru some sneaky method, or you will have to believe and trust. <BR>Not too many tough choices?! <BR>You did not say what kind of evidence you found that makes you believe he is still seeing the ow. It is essentially impossible to fix the marriage under those circumstances, according to harley. And I think it woud be hard to believe this and even work on the marriage! I mean how can one sincerely try to heal a marriage with this nagging doubt in the background?<BR>You can trust and love again. I do trust my h with my heart. I would make myself crazy by not trusting, second-guessing, worrying. I made the choice not to live that way, to give him the trust again. <BR>Listen to your gut!! If there is something amiss, follow thru the way you are comfortable. Either believe or get proof. <BR>(((hugs)))

Thank you all so much for the advice. I agree with most all of what you have said. It's just hard to do. I can't turn off the doubt. Some of the stuff I have found are her cell and pager numbers in the memory of his cell phone, not the stored numbers, these are the last 10 calls made. I have a phone identicle to his and know how to clear the numbers. He denys knowing that it's her number, that it is just the number that came up on his work pager which 5 men carry. He said he called it but just hung up, that it's a digital pager. Well I know better because even I know her number and know good and well he new it was her he was calling.. What's up with that. His excuses( I wont say lies) don't even make sense. I feel like I'm going over the deep end. I know the signs and I'm not blind. When I find something like this I have to confront him with it. If he would at least just say, yes she paged me she was having problems with her h and wanted to talk to me. But don't lie about having contact with her. They work at the same company but do not really have any contact with each other unless they make it. I want to trust him again, I want to make the choice to put it all behind me. I've prayed for God to give me some kind of reassurance. But then I snoop and I guess I'm hoping that I'll find tons of numbers in his phone none hers of course, but when I look I either find a cleared memory or her numbers. What kind of reasurrance is that. He said Sun. night that he wanted to make things better and that these things take time. So do I foget what I find, do i keep it to myself, or do I stop snooping altogether?????

Your story sounds os familiar (of course most do but you even more so) After I found out about the affair and H said it was over. My gut feeling said it wasn't and I countinued to snoop. Everytime I found something I confronted him and usually I would get him to confess. I kept duing this starting the end of Mar. till the end of June. I really tried to believe him and atrust him I gave him so much rope. Well by accident in June I found out that he had lied to me while I was a our daughters after she had her baby I was staying there to help her> It was really hard to trust him at home. Well, he told me he was going to have to work one Sat. I believed him till I found a receipt for an abortion dated that Sat. I confronted him. Yes OW had an abortion he took her. I confronted him on the phone, he called me later telling me he wasn't coming home he was staying with her. I went crazy I went over ther and threated that if he didn't come home the transplant surgery was off he came home. Begged me to forgive him. The transplant was four days later. I had my SIL with my son and I stayed with H. I didn't everything for him. He tole me how much he cared etc. But he was calling her everyday while I was with our son. And too make along story short 2 weeks after ou son left the hospital, the counselor got him to tell me the truth and the next thing was he left to live with the ow. I'm not sure why I told you all of this but I guess I just wante you to know that you do need to follow your gut feeling you have proof, so did I but I still don't know what I could have done. Except maybe been more patient I don't know I guess I wanted you to know what the possible outcome might be. So think about what you want and how to get it long and hard. Then you can make your decisions on wether to trust, confront or come up with another option.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Faith,<P>I was not satisfied to confront my husband until I hired a P.I. This P.I. followed him right to her house where he spent 4 hours. At that time I gave him the ultimatum. He chose me. Did I believe it was over NO. I could not stop obsessing about it.<P>I was creating my own scenerios about where he was and coming up with my own conclusions.. for example... I would say to myself.. "he is wearing shoes and not sneakers... he must have been with her.. took her to lunch and slept with her"..<P>I could not control my thoughts..<BR>Finally my therapist put me on paxil which gave me control of my thoughts and helped me see things for face value.<P>It enabled me to stop snooping and stop thinking about it continuosly, and to get my self confidence and my life back.<P>Yes I am still cautious, I look for the signs like how he is behaving etc..<BR>The paxil is helping me heal. Do I know what the future holds? He does, its me and him getting old together and taking care of one another.<P>Paxil enable me to back off of him and let him love me again like he did before this happened. With out paxil, he was guilty all the time.<P>Now if you have evidence that is black and white.. you should find out for sure. I just hope this helps you, but if you were like me you need solid proof like following him. The paxil stopped me from creating my own hell.

Thanks, di and RainieB you don't know how much I appreciate all of you for taking time to talk with me. I with I could afford a PI but that's out of the question. And I too know I am obsessing this ordeal. His behavior is not the same as it was when he was seeing her. We now cuddle in the bed at night when we go to sleep, he used to sleep as far from me as he possibly could. That's just one of the things. But I know I am taking the smallest of details and making them into the worst nightmare I could imagine. I had gotten better for a while, and it's been a year this past August since he told me about her. I was trying to claim my life back and not dwell on it any longer. I had wasted a year of my life worrying about it. I was going to be happy again. Just when I made that decision, I started finding her number in his cell phone. So what do you do when that happens? He makes excuses and they sound so lame, that they couldn't possibly be the truth. But how do I know for sure. I know it would be the worst thing to do but I feel like paging her myself or confronting her again. I alway found out more from the ow than I did my h. For now I'm not though, my h would be furious. I haven't been to a counselor I know I probably should have. I've read many books on the subject but for some reason cant bring myself to see a counselor, I guess it makes me feel like've failed if I can't fix it myself. I don't know. <P>I know you have both been through similar ordeals and I hurt for you all too. I is not good for our self esteem to be totally shattered but I feel like mine has. I'm leaning on you guys now to get me through this phase of my ordeal. I hope you don't mind. Thanks to one and all who cares. I will hold you all in my prayers...

Faith,<P>You will get through. My self confidence was also shot. I did not believe I was pretty or worth a penny. The Paxil helped me through that. You definitely need a counselor to help you through, not to determine you were a failure. <P>Look at me, I never found out what needs were not met. I think maybe either he never told me because it would give away details of the relationship, or it just boosted his self esteem.<P>Is he still cuddling you at night right now, when you found the number? <P>God only gave you one life. Remember that. Dont rely on anyone to make you feel special. Our lives are just a peek in the window..<P>Suggest you buy that tape from Whittney Houston with the song on it.. the greatest love of all. And really reflect upon it.<P>A counselor could help you find your self esteem again.<P>Also ask him if he is still talking to her. You need to get out of limbo.

RainieB,<BR> Your H sounds a lot like mine. He wont open up and tell me what was missing from his life when he was with her. I ask these very questions just Sun., what do you want in life to make you happy, what do you want from me, what do you want from our marriage. I am willing to do whatever it takes to meet his needs. But he can't even voice them to me. So, I like you will never know what he was missing or still is for that matter. I too think he was going through a time where he needed an ego boost. <P>Yes we are still cuddling at night, even when I find things that I think mean something. He seems to be more considerate of the time he is away and does give me more detail than he used to when he was gone. He lives a very active life and is gone alot so it is hard for me to let it go sometimes because of the time he is away from home. I've asked him to spend more time with myself and our 7 yr old daughter. He was going to spend the weekend away with me this week but he might end up having to work. Partly to be able to go on a hunting trip on his own. I pray that our weekend works out. <P>He works with the ow so he does see her on occasion at work. He swears that is the only time he talks to her or sees her. But I have to wonder with her cell phone and pager number in his phone. It doesn't add up. If he would even just admit, yes she paged me and I called her back. It would make more since than him lying. And if it was only an emotional affair, why would he think I would be upset about a simple phone call. <P>I'm seriously thinking about a counselor now. It's been over a year now and I am almost back to square one. To tell the truth I'm afraid to see a counselor. I know I will have to seek help for this. I can't keep bashing my h, especially if he is not doing anything wrong...

I told my husband when I gave him the ultimatum, that one of the conditions I am giving him a chance is, that he has to report any time he speaks to her or needs to see her.<P>He did tell me one time when she contacted him at work. He told me that he said to her, he does not need any trouble and to stop calling him. Was this the last time he spoke to her? Who will ever know.<P>After the ultimatum I also checked the phone (I could not resist), and his most recent calls were wiped out by bogus numbers, like 3333333 or 55555555 or 777777.<P>I figured he had some contact because he wiped out the numbers. It kept beating myself up to keep checking.<P>I could not stop checking until I started the Paxil. Paxil is for obsessive compulsive bahavior. The obsession was the affair, the compulsion was the inablity to control my actions, for example, constant questioning and checking.<P>I had to be real, and say to myself, there must be some contact to end the relationship, so I let it go.<P>Yes I am still wary.<P>It has been going on very long for you now, and its time to end your torture and go for help. Reclaim your life. Dont beg him to spend more time with you and your child. Start becoming more confident.. start carrying the "I dont give a ****" attitude, even if you do give a ****.<P>Take your kid out yourself, maybe he will turn around if he sees you dont need him so much. I still think you need to find out the facts though.<P>I find my husband is more receptive to me when I have a little cocky air about myself. Men like a challenge.

RainieB,<BR> In the beginning it was easier to accept that he was going through somewhat of a withdrawal period and I knew they would have some contact. But for him to still be in contact with her really preturbs me. If there is nothing going on and he is just her friend then he should be willing to tell me, he talks to her. But after all this time there, and with him knowing what it does to me, out of respect for me he should obstain from all contact.<P>I know what you say is true about getting my confidence back. And getting that dont give a **** attitude. I've read also about pulling back a little. I guess I am guilty of over loving him and in the process I am smothering him. <P>I would like to take my daughter out and do more, but that's what I was doing when he had his affair. He felt we were drifting apart and in the process they drifted closer together.

faith,<BR>You are right, there should absolutely be no contact with her.I did believe in the beginning my husband was just making phone calls, and I knew that would lead to something. This so called "friend" just popped in out of the blue, it was not someone he knew a long time. That is trouble.<P>As far as you spending more time with your kid, I dont mean an extraordinary amout of time where you are disappearing for hours and hours on end, but I also think that is a big joke of a reason that he had the affair.<P>My husband blamed me, that I would go out whenever he came home. I finally told him, that I thought by me going out, it would "turn him around", instead he used it to justify his behavior. Finally he agreed that his behavior caused me to react. I told him I tried everything.<P>Your husband also is just using that to justify his bahavior. He could be very much part of your activities if he wanted to. <P>Try to find out if it is still going on. He really should be open about the phone calls to you. But in the meantime, get to a counselor.

RainieB,<BR> Thanks so much for your support. I don't know how to find out what is still going on. But I like you will keep my eyes open. I'm tired of snooping, because everytime I do it just drives a deeper wedge between him and I. I just had something nice happen, he phoned me at lunch. I had just sent him a page, one where he doesn't have to call back, just a number that I told him it would be me thinking about him when he sees it. I established this number thing after all this first happened. I guess I felt that if the pager game was where he liked to play then, I would move in on her territory. I dunno. But I didn't expect him to all me after he got it but to my surprise he did. He didn't really want anything just to touch base with me today. Boy it sure did change my mood today. And I let him know how much it really meant to me to hear from him during the day. <BR>I guess it's one day at a time and try not to pick apart at the foundation of what really was a good marriage at one time. <P>Thanks so much for your help, It really means a lot to me.

faith,<BR>Yes dear, one day at a time. Since I started paxil, I could now take it one day at a time and not obsess what is going to happen.<P>I was driving a wedge between me and my husband with my questioning, suspicious looks and checking, I could not stop unless I took the paxil.<P>If you could stop for a while, stop. Give yourself a mental break. He is not your life, just an aspect of it.<P>When my husband calls me also during the day and is more open about where he is, my mood is immediately lifted. <P>I became very dependent upon all the little attention he gives me. When he says he misses me I am in a good mood, otherwise, I wondered does he miss me. I too am guilty of letting my husband be my alot of my life. <P>If I did not overhear a conversation between my husband and his friend, I would have never known about the relationship, and it may have ended on its own. AT the time when he was going through it, he was saying things like " I want a tattoo", "lets live life on the edge"...<P>Now I think he looks back and is embarassed by his behavior. <P>Try no to keep looking for things. Perhaps ask him if she is still in contact with him. Make a safe loving environment for him to come home to.

Wow RainieB,<BR> You just said something that was very similar to something I read last week. He's not my life just an aspeck of it. What I read was that God gave us marriage as a gift, it was not meant to be taken out of context. We should not love the gift more than the Giver. We should not put marriage between our relationship with God. That is what I've done. I guess it's like "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." I made my marriage a god and was worshiping it, so to speak. <P>I'm going to give myself a break and quit just like you said. He used to be able to come in to a safe warm home, now he is unsure what I will throw at him. He has even said so himself. I don't want to run him off with this behavior. I've got to move past it. <P>My h and I haven't had a vacation alone in over 7 years, and one with our daughter in the last 5, I don't consider a one night stay at the lake with the whole group of inlaws and out laws the same. What if this weekend that he promised me doesn't happen how do you think I should handle it. Should I just ask him to suggest another weekend that we can strive for or wait to see if he will work something out on his own. He knows what this weekend was going to mean to me..

Faith,<P>If this weekend does not happen, maybe just say something like "maybe we could do it next weekend, I would really like to spend time with you".<P>Make him feel sexy, tell him how smart he is, Brag about him in from of other people. Make your home a place where nothing else could compare with it in the world.<P>Look within yourself first. If you love your husband as much as I love mine you will look within you.<P>Here are a couple of my favorite expressions:<P>"I had the blues because I had no shoes, until upon the street I met a man with no feet".<P>heres the other one:<P>"Two men looked out behing the prison bars, one saw the mud, the other saw the stars".<P>They are pretty self explanatory. Give yourself a time frame, lets say 3 months where you will do no more checking and do more looking within you.<P>Revisit it then and see if things are still fishy.<P>Look at the other gifts in your life like your daughter and your health. If you have your health, you have it all, you are rich.<P>Dont get me wrong, I never wanted to be one of those wives whos husbands are having affairs their whole marriages. With this in mind I am always cautious. Since my husband is not Over sexed and his signs were so blatent, I think my intuition will tell me if it starts again.<P>You are aware of the situation, and that is good. Dont forget who you are and what you have.<P>Pray to God that he will keep you strong and see you through this situation.. Remember big problems, BIG prayers. Dont be stingy...<BR>Take care

Well, I am praying that we will get to spend some time together this weekend, but I don't plan on making him feel guilty for backing out on me. I'll let him know I still want to do something with him, but I think maybe the way I've been approaching him with things he might feel that he's been letting me down. And he doesn't know how to deal with it. <P> I have beem praising him, talking about how sexy he is in all. Which is true he has lost 56 lbs. I've been complimenting his good qualities, I just need to keep away from negative input. I have always strived to do what I can to make him happy and meet his needs, I think the worst thing I do now is to doubt him and confront him with those doubts. <P>I guess what hurt the most out of this whole ordeal is that I never saw it coming. I had that impression that many wives have that my h is not capable of doing it. I thought he just doesn't have it in him. He too is not over sexed and never was a lady's man. He has never been an emotional person, so it is hard for me to see how he got so close to the ow. I'm going to stop right there before I start dwelling on it again. He is busy with is manly hobbies, hunting, fishing etc.. that was where his interest were. Boy did it kill me to find out that everyone was capable. I've read that here on the MB site also. <P>I will give the investigating a rest, and I think the 3 month period will be a good time frame. Although it may be tough because it is hunting season and he will be gone quite a bit. I will have to pray for much strength during the next few months. I want to provide him with a warm loving home, I just don't want him to take advantage of it and deceive me again. <P>I do know to look for the signs though, but after all the snooping hes done, he knows to be more careful than before. Let's pray that wont happen.<P>I do know that I am blessed, and very fortunate in so many ways, my situations could be much worse. Mine seems mild compared to many on the site here, but I hurt just as well. <P>Let me share what I heard on a video, Happiness is based on your circumstances, but true Joy is based on the peace that you are in Gods will and right with the Lord. It's very hard sometimes for me but I must focus on true Joy and not my happiness, which changes with every moment. <P>Thank you RainieB for everything. I'll let you know what is happening about this weekend. <P>God bless!!! (hugs)

Faith,<P>Have a wonderful weekend too. My story is so much like yours believe me. I will be out of the office tomorrow, (Friday) so I will try to get back in on Monday. <P>We all never saw it coming, and I also did not know my husband had it in him.<P>God Bless (hug back).