OK, I�ve been frequenting the LB Forum for about a month now and it�s clear I need to begin asking questions and advice of this remarkable community.

My first question is followed by a summary of my situation. If I�ve posted in the wrong forum, please let me know. I apologize in advance for the length of this first post as well.


First Question:

What do you do when your FWS is not willing to expend any meaningful effort to rebuild the relationship and restore romantic love? At what point do you stop bending over backwards to be loving and draw a hard line to say �If you are not willing to do what is required to save the marriage, you need to leave?�

It�s been 14 months since D-day. Her very brief EA is completely over (absolutely certain). She will go on a weekly date, but is not willing to hold hands, hug, kiss, touch etc� She rejects anything that feels like pressure to her, which is essentially anything that would actually improve our relationship. Her excuses are �It�s just going to take time,� and �I just can�t give you more right now.� She clings hard to the belief that for women love is light a light switch; once turned off, it�s off. An important note is that her father is dying, but that has been going on for nearly 2 years now.

I have spent the majority of the last 14 months essentially doing a Plan A. I have immersed myself daily in marriage rescue, affair recovery, relationship repair books and day-to-day practice. But I am growing very, very tired of the incredible effort on my part while receiving nothing in return. I am new to MB but have read and studied about 20 different books over the past 14 months. While I completely get the value of meeting her emotional needs and avoiding love busters, I am struggling with the fact that she will not commit to doing what is required to save the marriage.

Background:

Wife and I have been married 18 years. She�s 40, I�m 46. We have two daughters, 7 and 12. We are both hard-working, successful, self-employed individuals from traditional families. She�s an only child, I�m a middle kid. Both had successful, executive-type fathers. We lived together for about a year before we married. First marriage for both of us. No history of abuse, addiction etc.. in our marriage.
Our marriage, and life as I knew it, blew up on March 18th 2011 when I discovered she had begun an emotional/sexting affair with a 19 year old child.

The entire affair, from beginning to abrupt end lasted about 22 days of which only 4 were spent in the same place. The remaining contact took the form of 3000+ text messages, email messages and phone calls. The extent of the physical involvement was passionate kissing in a pool at night but would absolutely have become completely sexual had she not had to fly home the next day (her words).

Relevant to some forthcoming questions, the affair began while my wife was out of state on a brief vacation, alone, to run a marathon-type race. The affair began at the home of my wife�s best �friend,� a 66 year old woman my wife considers to be her �surrogate mother� (My wife�s mother died suddenly when my wife was only 20 and this woman was her mother�s best friend). The POS (my own acronym) with whom my wife had this affair, was the cute, fun, neighbor kid my wife�s friend frequently had over to the house to help with odd projects. (Note, wife�s AP was beloved pet of wife�s best �friends� whom she considers to be family)

Anticipating typical doubt and suspicion surrounding what I know to be factual, past and present, let me say that I am speaking from a position of having 14 months of extensive intelligence on this. You can trust that what I�m telling you is not based on conjecture, blind faith, or wishful thinking.

All contact with wife�s AP ended within a day or two of D-day at my insistence. I called the AP/kid personally the next day. Also called our �friends� in other state to disclose the affair (reaction was total denial, support/protection of kid). Only subsequent contact with AP was a desperate, written love letter from my wife to AP in July of 2011, trying to restart the affair. He responded by text message a week later (via WWF game chat) and told her to go away and leave him alone.

Did (worthless) joint marriage counseling for a short time. She stopped participating after 2 months. We also did a 3-day, intensive, affair-recovery program in May of 2011. Since then it�s been a mixed bag of individual counseling as she�s not been willing to do joint.

Upon discovery of her affair, my wife transformed instantaneously into a completely different person I�d never seen before. She became an angry, bitter, hateful, resentful, bitc*. She did not then, nor has she since, revealed to me any guilt, remorse, or regret for her actions. She did not outright ask for a divorce but clearly communicated she was �done� and wanted out. This behavior has continued, at a wide range of intensities, for 14 months. She blames me for making her �vulnerable� to having an affair (trust me I know this is BS) . Her biggest complaint has been that I ignored her need for financial security for many years. While partially true, we have run our own businesses separately and together over the years and she is at least 50% responsible for causing the financial stress she blames 100% on me.

We have slept in the same bed since D-day and have not separated. We have had sex only once in 14 months (July 2011). She will tolerate an occasional foot rub.

My personal conviction since day one of this saga is that if she makes the tragic decision to cause permanent, lifelong damage to our children by leaving our marriage to satisfy her own selfishness, I would fight long and hard for full custody of my children. To this end, for the protection of my children, and myself, I am fully prepared to proactively file for divorce (first) if necessary. I could have her served in a matter of hours if necessary. I have been hours away from pulling the trigger on D two or three times in the past 14 month when it appeared that she was planning to do the same.

In February 2012 we were very, very close to divorce due to her refusal to return to marriage counseling and to stop doing things that were harmful to our family. I somehow convinced her to do a competing, 7-week marriage fitness program known for saving marriages. We began the program and I believe doing so stopped us from going over a cliff. But we are now at a standstill because she has stopped working on the program and is back to doing nothing. The current excuse is that she can only worry about her dad right now. I�m reasonably sympathetic to this but also believe that it is a convenient excuse for her.

I've just ordered two copies of Love Busters and am hopeful to persuade her to read it with me.

She is still clearly in a "fog", i would suspect another POSOM. I would not believe that she did not have sex with the 19yr old. Remember waywards lie about everything, unless you got a polygraph.
I think the steps go like this:
1. expose the affair, far and wide to all that will help
2. plan A (which sounds like you are doing)

However, You might be at the plan B step, considering the duration of time passage

hi driven. welcome to MB. i am sorry for why you are here.

i normally don't post to BHs, because i do not have any experience as a WW. however, i think you need some advice now.

i am sorry, but i think your WW is having an affair, whether with the boy (ewww) or with another man. what she has said to you
is fog-speak/waywardness. after 14 months, she shouldn't be in the fog. plus, her lack of remorse is another big red flag.

it sounds like you have done plan a, and for far too long (i think Dr H recommends 1 year for BHs). you need to prepare for plan b. do you know how this works?

you have been driving the recovery bus, and it has led to a false recovery (actually, no recovery at all). it is the WSs job to drive recovery - she's needs to provide you with JC! only then can you have a real M where you feel safe, and you both are happy.

it is time for you to put your foot down and give her a dose of reality. prepare for plan b, which should include YOU staying in the house with your kids, and put her out with your plan b letter. do not provide for her. she needs to figure out how to provide for herself as a consequence of her actions.

make sure you post everything here first so we can help guide you. it's essential to have help and support to carry this out. this is your shot, and you don't want to mess it up. it's a very narrow road to recovery.

I agree this is a perfect situation for Dr. Harley ... please email them at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. I would love to here Dr. Harley's take on this.

My first thought ... how has your Plan A been over these 14 months?
If it isn't stellar...try to get into stellar mode.

How has your snooping been? I would James Bond her butt immediately looking for a new OM.

If you are 100% certain no new OM, then may I ask, how selfish was she before her adultery?

You stated you both are successful self-employed business people yet discuss her EN for financial support has gone unmet. Can you clarify?

Go 1000% on your Plan A until you get further guidance from the board. In the meantime, please let us know how your snooping is going.

This is what happens when there is no plan for recovery. Marriages slog along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage in worse shape than before the affair. The reason she can't get into it is because has fallen out of love and sees no hope for change. She can't fall back in love unless there is a PLAN to fall back in love. It does not happen by accident. Unfortunately, marriage counselors have no idea how to recover a marriage from an affair and you have wasted alot of time on that.

Have you confirmed the affair is really over? Is there anything that could be triggering her? Such as ooglin the OM's facebook page? Did she save any momentos?

If you are doing some serious snooping and have ruled out any contact with the OM, I would strongly suggest you counsel with Steve Harley. He is not like traditional counselors in that he will give you a step by step action plan to restore the love in your marriage. The difference between Harley and others is taht they actually do know how to affair proof a marriage and restore the romantic love.

Plan A is not warranted. He should have been in Plan RECOVERY 14 months ago. When the affair ends, it is time to go through the steps of RECOVERY, not start Plan A up all over again.

Driven, it is clear to me that your wife is either in her affair or she has given up hope on your marriage. Assuming there is no affair [and you need to be checking!] here is the plan you should be in:

here

Mel ... isn't this the same situation at Blackhawk, and another poster on here who Dr. Harley told to Plan A for 2 years to bring his wife back to the marriage after her adultery. Brain ... can you remember that radio clip on this?

I recommend Plan A now while he is snooping. If there is an active affair then he needs to be Plan Aing his butt off.

Did you not read where he said he has been in Plan A for 14 months? Did you read the quote I posted from Dr Harley? The plan should be Plan RECOVERY, not more Plan A. Plan A is to be used when the affair has not ended. His marriage needs to move onto the next step, which is Plan Recovery.

nononnnono he does not. If the affair is still ongoing, almost 2 years after D-Day, you don't continue Plan A.

Let me put it this way, Plan A was never intended to be a way of life. When the affair ends, the plan moves to Plan RECOVERY. He has not done that.

Driven, which program is this? I know of NO marriage program that effectively restores the love to a marriage. There is a very strict path to a recovered marriage. What is their action plan?

It won't be a way of life for him. I am looking for that radio clip ... he can go upto 2 years and then it is Plan B. It is the same advice Blackhawk has received.

My thought is he hasn't been doing an effective Plan A either. I only recommend he continue Plan A until he finds out if there is an active affair or not ... if she isn't in a new affair he needs to decide when he wants to do Plan B.

I agree he needs to be in recovery, but he isn't. We need to find out if that is due to her just being foggy from OM#1 or if there is a new OM.

How about sitting this one out and letting us help this poster learn the concepts for recovery so he can present them? You have taken the program out of context once again and we need to help this man..

I don't appreciate that Melody. There are several and I mean several BH on here with this identical problem. You are more than welcome to advise him with your direction. I will give him information that I feel is also relevant. Nothing out of context...out of the Doctor's mouth and Steve's mouth.

Here is Blackhawk's thread. It discusses his withdrawn wife because her OM died. They both are counseling with Steve, and he is in a long Plan A with his wife.

The difference between blackhawks case and this poster's is that this poster knows NOTHING about the MB plan and has never tried to sell it to his wife. Not so with Blackhawk. This is why I get so frustrated with your posts, PI; you don't see small but extremely significant differences like this because you have no practical personal or board experience saving marriages and do not have a good grasp of the concepts. ****edit***

So please back off and let the rest of us help this poster understand the program so he can effectively sell it.

If there is an ongoing affair with a new OM ... he needs to consider Plan B. That is why I recommend keeping the Plan A going until he has the facts on the status of an affair. Why would he change from that plan until he has his facts is there or isn't there an affair.

If there is, then I recommend Exposure, demand NC for life, and if she is unwilling then Plan B immediately.

If there isn't an active affair, then he needs to either pull his WW out of withdraw by 20+ hours of UA time, meeting each others emotional needs, and if she refuses to meet his needs then he can either go upto 2 years with Plan A or he can go into an immediate Plan B. It is his choice.

Dr. Harley explained it well in a radio clip that stated the man wanted to divorce his WW after 1.5 years of Plan A. Dr. Harley told him he could go up to 2 years. I am looking for it as I write this.

Wow ... that is highly disrespectful and frankly I don't appreciate your disrespect.

Did you actually READ the post you linked from blackhawk's thread? In it, he decribes how they are going through the motions of the MB program. As long as those ACTIONS are in place, the feelings are bound to follow.

That is the missing ingredient in this poster's marriage. The actions have not been set in place that would EFFECT the feelings. It is under those conditions that a Plan A would be prolonged - or in an affair situation.

Are you able to understand the difference?

Would you mind too much if we help this poster understand the concepts of recovery and help him sell his wife on them?