He's already doing all of this and it really wasn't due to my begging or asking...I just mentioned and he agreed. The only thing I didn't say was about being in the midst of someone of the opposite sex. I have my own account and we have a joint account so he can direct deposit his payroll.

I have email password, credit card information (to view online), I have access to his laptop, phone records, ect.

At this point, I believe he is willing to do just about anything. it's been too early but his words have been spoken, I'm just waiting to view his actions.

Well, that is good that casual contact is hard, but I still have my doubts about planned contact. Did you say that your H had an affair in his previous marriage (Again - please forgive my terrible memory.)

The "I still think about the what ifs" suggest that there had been several conversations, not just this one. They had been thinking about the "what ifs" some time ago, and they "still think about" them.

What are the "what ifs"? The "what if" is not that he is married, because she says "but aren't you married?" so there is another "what if".

Did you ever ask him to explain this conversation?

Yes, he had an affair while still married. I know that people make mistakes. I wasn't perfect in my first marriage either. I don't believe in the phrase: Once a cheater, always a cheater.

I just wanted to head off something that could have happened. I think I succeeded in doing so. Now, I'm just focusing on the present and the future. I'm not looking at the past right now - (I'm sure I'll be bashed for that), but it's true. I won't forget what the past has held, it will make me more aware of what the future could bring, but I won't dwell on the past. It will only make the present that much more difficult with the mending that needs to take place.

Goodness, you are defensive, Diamond. SugarCane didn't say or suggest any of that. She simply asked the factual question whether he had an affair in his previous marriage or not. It's just a yes or no question.

It sounds like you are desperate to defend him, even when nobody launched an attack.

Obviously here on Marriage Builders we ALL don't believe in the phrase once a cheater, always a cheater. But we know how to tell if someone is going to cheat again or not.

Do you realize that SugarCane's husband had a devastating affair that lasted years, but that she and her husband are now in a very promising recovery? The purpose of her post was not to try to tell you that "once a cheater, always a cheater." She just asked a question.

I really feel like it will help you to listen more and react less. I feel like your strong defensive reactions are probably keeping you from listening and receiving all of the benefit you could receive.

I don't believe in it either. As markos has said, my H was repeatedly unfaithful with the same woman after many D Days in our marriage, and I would not be attempting recovery now if I believed in the phrase. What i do believe in is finding out all the details of the affair to establish what enabled it to take place, and cutting off those avenues so that it would be extremely hard for it to take place again. My H's affair was facilitated by his travel abroad a couple of times a month. After many D Days, he changed jobs so that there was no more travel, and I informed OWH so that he could take steps to ensure no more travel at her end, either. Almost unbelievably, after the affair started OW got a job that necessitated foreign travel too, and so the pair were both able to make the excuse that they were working, and meet abroad without their spouses being any the wiser. When I exposed to OWH, he made her take an internal transfer so that she would not have the opportunity to travel, either.

Still with both eyes on them, they kept up six-monthly check-ins via work, for another 5 years until this was discovered by me last year. My H is now retired and at home all day, where I do most of my work and we can spend time together. He has no mobile phone, laptop or tablet and I have spyware on the PC. Critically, though, we are doing the MB online course and this is changing the way we run our marriage.

The point I am trying to make with my own example is that extraordinary protections are needed to stop repeated affairs. You can see what it took in my marriage.

I would not say "once a cheater always a cheater" - but I would point out that your H has cheated in both his marriages, and very early on in this one.

I'm sorry. I wasn't meaning to come off as defensive. I was just trying to make a point that I realize that people do make mistakes. I really wasn't expecting to discuss his affair while married is all and was just giving my "view from where I see it today".

I don't feel like it pertains - because it is in the past - I don't like dwelling in the past. This was probably a question that was asked of me earlier on and I wasn't expecting it to come to light in this thread - but understand why it was asked...to refresh SugarCane's memory. Again, sorry if I responded incorrectly. It was a yes or no question.

To give you some background on me: I was very hot headed when I was younger. I could not control my temper. I had placed my hand thru a glass door, I would throw things, I would use un-ladylike language. I had an affair while married - I used illegal drugs, I was a Jehovah Witness. Does that make me a terrible person today? I don't think so because it's no longer who I am.

How long ago was all this? 25 years. The past becomes the past at some point. I'm living for today. I'm going to forgive him for his past. But, again, when does the past become the past? I guess that depends on the individual.

I no longer have the temper. I would not even consider having an affair, I don't do drugs of any kind, I practice what I preach (I'm no longer a JW though). I have lived and learned thru my mistakes. Does all that pertain to what's going on in my life today with my husband? Absolutely not. Why did I bring it up? To make a point, perhaps. People change. People learn from their mistakes.

I came here wanting "insight" as to how to go about fixing things. I didn't come here to be bashed on how I viewed counselors. I totally agree with Dr. Harley and his approach to "Marriage Building" - but I also believe there has got to be at least be one counselor on this earth who agrees with his "teaching" also. I may have found her :-)

I have appreciated the feedback, will work on reading the material with my husband, and will move forward in the marriage if my husband is willing - but only time and his actions will tell. It's not an overnight fix, I understand that. But I've got half the battle won by his words to me, his emails and his texts. He will just have to prove those all to be true.

Giving you factual information is not "bashing" you.

Again I am worried because it seems that you are very concerned with making your point and educating us, which means you're not in a mode to receive help.


You simply haven't been bashed. We are passing on to you Dr. Harley's warnings about marriage counselors, as well as warnings from our own experiences.

And again, you probably don't know enough about Marriage Builders to know if your counselor really agrees with him or not. Our counselors were all definitely aware of Marriage Builders and thought that they "incorporated" it into their own "unique" approach. And yet they didn't understand MB at all.

And really, if you have been seeing your counselor for ten years, and yet two years ago you had no idea how to tell that your husband was going to have an affair, it sounds like your counselor has a track record of failure. She should have been educating you about the dangers, and it sounds like she missed it.

I totally understand that point. That's why I've done what I have done - email access, phone records, bank accounts/credit cards. I feel like I have stopped things from happening. I just know for me, I couldn't have survived what you did. I commend you for that!

I just want to be back on track because I will not find myself here in 6 months/9 months/1 year from now still dealing with the same issues. They will either have been dealt with and resolved or I will be a single girl again. It's not what I want, but I refuse to be with someone who can't be honest and loyal.

He knows about the 3 strike rule and I believe he understands how serious I am about this not happening again.

Again, all I wanted was a little support and to vent some of my problems. I guess I did just that and got some feedback I wasn't expecting...but that's ok. I'll take it and reflect back on it later.

So, you don't believe that people can change? I was simply stating how I felt - as I'm sure most people WOULD feel this way or there wouldn't be any in recovery. I feel my words are being misconstrued and I'm sorry for that. I have only voiced my "opinions" - I wasn't intending to "educate" anyone...they were simply my views and opinions. They are neither right or wrong because we all have them.

I don't understand what you are saying here, sorry. How could my counselor know if he would have an affair or not? There were no signs. And believe me, I would pick up on at least a few of them...

Again, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as being defensive and "my way or no way" type of attitude. It's just not so.

No, I've said the opposite about three times, that I do believe people can change.

But it doesn't sound like you are listening.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, Diamond. I hope you didn't pay money to this woman to tell you something this obvious!

What can you tell us about your H's affair?

These are pretty critical. He's NOT 'dang near perfect' if one very elementary component of honesty is not in place. Honesty is the main cornerstone of any foundation. I am worried that you're aren't concernced about this dishonest flaw in his character.

Hi Diamond,

You have some excellent posters already posting to you.

I went back and read some of your earlier posts/threads.

Have you been able to get POJA accomplished and PORH? I noticed you struggled with these before you M your now H and you still are struggling.

I know you don't think so, but you've known about MB since 2005 and before you M him and so I really think you should call the coaching center.

My husband and I sat down last night and went thru some of the material here. He seems to be in total agreement to the policies.

I agree that I've gotten some excellent responses...i just need to step back and think some of them thru before I post anymore.

My husband will be reading thru the posts and will post his own response here shortly (i'm guessing)...(murph04)

Again, thank you all for taking the time and effort...

good morning everyone, first i want to thank you all for your postings, my wife (diamond) has talked very highly about marriage builders. i have enjoyed reading the materials she has provided for me. i want everyone to know including my lovely wife diamond that i am committed to fixing our relationship and moving forward. she is the love of my life. we all make mistakes in our lives but what is important is how we learn from them and then how we move forward. time is the answer and actions are even more important. i understand when you do something that causes trust to leave a relationship it is very difficult to get the trust back but like i said i am committed to fixing and showing her i can and will be trusted.

murph, welcome to Marriage Builders. It is wonderful to see you here! We can help you stay on the path to restore trust to your marriage.

One of the best pieces of advice my wife and I got was to start our own threads and not post on each other's, so I encourage you to do that.

I understand that Diamond has printed reams of information off this site for you ... have you read the Basic Concepts?

And he is posting here, which really impresses me, so far.

That being the case, you are going to need to watch how well he keeps to the policies.

Yes. I'm excited that he is doing that. It will probably be few and far between due to his not having access to a computer all day.

I will help him get started on his own thread when I get the chance - good idea markos, thanks! That way he can answer all the questions that pertain to him...

I will update this thread after our weekend...