Almost,

Once again I find myself reliving my WH post A behaviour whenever I read your thread. I feel your WH is a carbon copy of mine and I had to put up with rewriting and amending and adding to the original EP's list a few times because he continuously broke them and belittled them and with each broken EP I suffered a major set back and felt I was being punched in the gut all over again even if most of the time they were small EPs.

It even got to the point he printed out the EP list and put it in his wallet to carry around with him so he can refer to it every time he was about to brake it and this didn't work either, nothing works with a WH who simply isn't willing to do what it takes to recover.

In March this year my WH broke a major EP ( he allowed a stranger to sit on his lap while I was fully present with him) and I came here seeking advise one more time. Although many were frustrated with me there was a very wise vet who advised me to set consequences to any broken EP. It was such a simple deterrent that I felt totally embarrassed that I hadn't even thought about it. So for example if my WH had any inappropriate contact with another female I am going straight to plan b and then plan D without even giving him half a second to blink before his backside is out of my house. If he broke a less severe EP like taking money out of our household without POJAing it then the consequence for me would be that he would no longer be able to access any of our money and will have to hand over all his cards and will be given cash upon request.

I would pass on this advice to you because since I have clearly set up consequences to broken EP after 3 years of torture, not a single EP has been broken. That for me and my WH is a MAJOR achievement.

To be continued....

This is my fear, too.

When people here talk about the wayward alien that took over their spouse, and how happy they are when they get their real husband back, I have this sick sense in the pit of my stomach. Because this is who my husband has always been. He has always been willing to manipulate me to get me to cave. He has always lied to me and been willing to do whatever he pleases at the expense of my feelings. He's always been willing to make me feel bad about myself to deflect attention from his bad behaviour.

And I have always been weak, and not seen clearly, and enabled this behaviour.

I can't believe I am THAT PERSON. Wow.

Are we salvageable?
Is it possible to build a great marriage if things were bad BEFORE the affair?

I want to know there's hope. But his reluctance to put anything ahead of himself fills me with dread.

Thanks Markos. He's not loving your advice, but he just researched and called for an appointment for anger management coaching.

Forward progress?

Thanks NB28. I was hoping to hear from you since our stories are so similar.

I'm struggling so much with the fact that he doesn't think he should have to do anything here without guarantees of my feelings and actions. He doesn't GET just compensation or the fact that he should need to earn his way back into this marriage or try to build trust.

He just. Doesn't. Get it.

I'm going to seek out your thread to read more. I obviously have a lot to learn...

That's a good sign.

Read through Dr. Harley's articles for his advice on what to accept and what not to accept.

I have got to admit that I haven't heard him say anything like that here.

If he said it during an angry outburst, you should know that he was completely insane and irrational. You might as well be looking for reason in a drunk.

But if this is his main message and constant refrain, that he wants you to do more, wants you to step up to the plate, isn't sure if he wants to recover or not ... well, then, I wouldn't.

I am very concerned about his sense of entitlement, have you guys seen DR Harley's concept of just compensation??

You are the injured party in all of this, not your WH and I am very concerned about his demands to be made to feel safe and demanding you get over the assault he inflicted on you within a timeline that he sets.

This thinking is frankly just plain moronic, let's say your WH had hit you and broken your leg, would he demand that you get over the pain and of the injury you sustained before the plaster has even come off?? Would he make you agree to sign a document stating that you will not press charges for the assault or any future assaults becaus he needs to be made to feel safe should eh ever choose to hit you again??

Just compensation means he has to make you feel safe, he has to fix the defects in himself that led to him thinking it is acceptable to assault you, he has to prove to you that he is willing to do what it takes to earn your trust and help you heal.


He lost the right to feel safe in the marriage the minute he threw the marriage away for the sake of some cheap thrills. He does not get to come back and make ANY requests from you regarding the marriage unless they are MB related.

As far as denying you SF in order to FORCE you to move on, this is low and even when my WH was at his foggiest didn't stoop that low in his manipulation. It is actually quite damaging in every sense. Common sense says you don't cheat on a person then when you get back to them reject their attempts at intimacy because all this serves to achieve is love bust and cause huge resentment.

Quite simply put your WH has to EARN your trust over a LONG period of time but every time he brakes an EP the trust will get broken all over again so I would tell him outright, he can try everything in his power to manipulate you into trusting him but this will get him nowhere and cause more damage. only following the EPs and working hard at recovery will give him any chance of ever earning your trust again.

And as far as the pre nup goes he has to sign one giving you full protection in case of an A . You have not done anything wrong and therefore should NOT be required to sign anything to reassure him.

His main message over about the last week (which has admittedly been almost one long series of angry outburtsts) is that he really wants to make it work. To make me feel safe. To meet my needs and follow EPs. Etc.

IF I respond the way he wants me to.
IF I guarantee I want to be here, forever
IF I do a better job
IF I start making better forward progress
IF I reassure him I'm not just 'making him pay' to satisfy my own 'vengeful nature' and then leave him high and dry

There are a lot of ifs.

He says he regrets doing this to me and wants to make the marriage work, but the conditionality of his willingness doesn't scream the attitude of a man who's remorseful for ripping my life to shreds.

And he doesn't understand how painful it is for me that this is all about him and his fears.

Markos and Almost.

My WH posted here too, he had his thread and I had mine and trust me when I say he said all the right things on his my thread but did none when he was at home and continuously played the "I don't get it" card.

There is nothing to get, he caused injury, he broke something, he has a fault, Al may have faults but they have not injured the marriage and give half the chance to see just compensation from her WH i am sure she would be willing to work on her side of the street but the clear perpetrator right now is her WH so he is the one who has to show the commitment to the M. There are no guarantees to be give to him or anything to confuse him. His BS and numerous vets on here have told him what he has to do, but instead of being honest and seeking further clarification on anything he does not get he spends his time deflecting and seeking admiration for his 'valiant' efforts. I Sussed this guy out from the moment he ducked my H questions and comments that were posted on his thread.



AL a further note to you is that through 10 year of M my H never once showed aggressiveness or as a phisical threat to me but while undergoing yet another false recover he lost control and ended up assaulting me phisically. He did spend the night in jail and paid for his actions but I wanted to share this in order to alert you to be weary and head the others advise to get him anger management.

AI,

Are you and trt rehashing the affair?

Are all your questions answered about the affair?

Have you seen this on just compensation?
Can't we just forgive and forget?

Also NB28 really started recovery when she held her H accountable for breaking his EPs.

AL this isn't a negotiation, he does not get to set the terms of your healing, he lost any right to ask for reassurance the minute he had the A's. Do not allow any such negotiations.

No one should allow an addict to go in the driving seat. This is YOUR pain. He is suffering the consequence of HIS bad choices, the consequences are not VOLONTARY nor are they negotiable.

This is why MB suggests that the BS should set the bar high when it comes to recovery with a WS.

I would strongly reccomend you set your bar high and do not give him any other options a part from embarking on a full MB recovery or no recovery at all. If he really wants to recover he will do what he needs to do without making any demands on you.


I can't stress this enough

DO
NOT
NEGOTIATE
THE
TERMS
OF
YOUR
RECOVERY

And when I stopped my own angry outburst about the A, when I stopped bringing it up every hour of the day (yes I was doing that even 3 years after the A ended), and when I committed to MB and UA time and when I set the bar high.

BS have alot of work to do too but the strength to do the work and the commitment to work through the pain and triggers only comes whe there is a WS who is willing and doing their share of the recovery work in actions as well as words.

Another excellent radio clip on Dr. Harley explaining forgiveness compared to just compensation.

Radio Clip explaining Just Compensation

Thank you. I was just reflecting on this earlier and thinking this was my big mistake. I didn't draw a line in the sand right from the start and say 'this is what I require, take it or leave it'.

We reached a point now where I feel worse than when I discovered he was sleeping with his skanky adultery partner. I didn't even think that was POSSIBLE.

I'm ready to draw that line.

Thank you! That was helpful.

You're very welcome.

AND it turns out multiple things he told me about the PA were lies.

No wonder he's been harassing me to move on. He wants to get to the 'never talk about it again' stage of recovery. He's trying to shut me up before I find all the holes in his stories.

I'm sorry your going through this AL my thoughts are with you. Trickle truth is brutal.

It's even worse than the first punch in the face. And I know...I just know...it's not over yet.

At least one thing here has become brutally clear. I AM A FREAKING IDIOT.

Don't beat yourself up.

Now you have the chance to know exactly what you want from him. Even Dr. Harley recommends separation if the WS doesn't make radical changes. Some WS jump to the chance and some do not. You hold the stick of whether you want to walk this or not. Only you have his actions to measure by.

Have you read Gloveoil and Herpapabear's posts? Two of our top FWH. They both did some major crap when they first got here.