You are on MB. One of the most basic concepts of MB is to not do something that hurts your spouse. Whether or not pornography is okay, in your opinion, does not matter - what matters, is that your wife is hurt by it and therefore is something that you should give up...You can live without it

It doesn't have to be a universally agreed upon harm in order to harm. It harms your marriage. You know that. You just don't want to give it up, that's all...You've made it clear in your first that you want to do the "bare minimum" in this marriage. If this is the case, and it has been MONTHS since you have posted this thread, I ask you... what is it that you want from MB. What. Because if months later, you still don't care that the internet porn or magazines hurt your wife, then we can't help you. You can 'enjoy' your mediocre marriage until your wife divorces you because you don't give a rat's bum about hurting her.

Why don't you email Dr. Harley? If you leave your phone number you can be a caller on the show?...Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

The definition of an addict is a person who is addicted. That is what you are. You have posted pages of exhaustive excuses about why you have to continue viewing porn and willingly disrespect your wife and wreck your marriage. A normal person would just stop doing it instead of going to those lengths. It is obvious you have an addiction problem.

What makes a behavior an addiction is primarily its self-destructive characteristics...It's the amount of something we do or how we do it that usually determines whether or not it's an addiction. ..In addition to its self-destructiveness, there's another characteristic of addiction -- guilt and shame. The addict knows that what he or she is doing is wrong, but can't stop doing it...Finally, a third characteristic is its tendency to be compulsive. The addict wants to stop the behavior, but seems powerless to do so...Anything that you enjoy doing so much that you do it without regard for the feelings of your spouse will damage, and possibly ruin, your marriage. But that kind of behavior is not necessarily an addiction. It can simply be a selfish and foolish choice...Men who view pornography, frequent strip clubs, and even have sexually explicit chats with women on the internet don't usually fit the description of an addict. They readily admit (at least to me) that they violate the Policy of Joint Agreement because they believe that their wives do not have the right to dictate what they can and can't do...it's normal for most men to enjoy, and hence, want to view pornography.

[What makes a behavior an addiction is primarily its self-destructive characteristics...It's the amount of something we do or how we do it that usually determines whether or not it's an addiction. ..In addition to its self-destructiveness, there's another characteristic of addiction -- guilt and shame. The addict knows that what he or she is doing is wrong, but can't stop doing it...Finally, a third characteristic is its tendency to be compulsive. The addict wants to stop the behavior, but seems powerless to do so...Anything that you enjoy doing so much that you do it without regard for the feelings of your spouse will damage, and possibly ruin, your marriage. But that kind of behavior is not necessarily an addiction. It can simply be a selfish and foolish choice...Men who view pornography, frequent strip clubs, and even have sexually explicit chats with women on the internet don't usually fit the description of an addict. They readily admit (at least to me) that they violate the Policy of Joint Agreement because they believe that their wives do not have the right to dictate what they can and can't do...it's normal for most men to enjoy, and hence, want to view pornography.

The term addiction is also sometimes applied to compulsions that are not substance-related, such as compulsive shopping, sex addiction/compulsive sex, overeating, problem gambling, exercise/sport and computer addiction. In these kinds of common usages, the term addiction is used to describe a recurring compulsion by an individual to engage in some specific activity, despite harmful consequences, as deemed by the user themselves to their individual health, mental state, or social life. There may be biological and psychological factors contributing to these addictions.[6]

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Maybe I will ask some questions for the radio show at some point but in the case of calling any porn viewing an addiction

No one has called "any porn viewing an addiction" though. I have said YOU are addicted to porn. You can't give it up. You are willing to risk your marriage rather than give up porn.

I guess I don't understand what you want. You have tried for months to convince others that this is ok, to no avail. Why? You don't need our approval, so your continued attempts just come across as aspergerish. If you want to choke the chicken and look at porn, just go do it. You don't need to go on an internet forum and try - and fail - to get the approval of others...Do you need our approval that bad?

As you already know, there are two parts to the issue of viewing pornography: The POJA and the contrast effect. Your question is not with the POJA, so what other reasons could there be for avoiding it?

Even when a couple are in enthusiastic agreement about viewing pornography, the contrast effect poses a very significant risk. To review, the contrast effect is demonstrated when two enjoyable experiences are compared. The one providing the greatest enjoyment makes the other less attractive than it would have been without the comparison. So in the case of pornography, when the body of a young woman who has been carefully chosen to be particularly attractive to men is viewed by husbands, their wives seem to be unattractive to them, regardless of how much they refute that characterization. So the love units that could have gone into a husband�s account when his wife is naked is squandered. I go so far as to recommend an exclusive sexual relationship in marriage that eliminates all sexual experiences that are not with and do not focus attention on a spouse. That rule of sexual exclusivity guarantees the greatest Love Bank deposits between spouses.

Some of it has been helpful so far but simply hearing, "Your wife is always right and you need to admit you are wrong"

I liked the ideas in "His needs, her needs" and "Lovebusters" so I was interested in hearing people's experiences applying these principles. I've just been trying to sort out and understand what I could expect to work well in practice or not and why. Some of it has been helpful so far but simply hearing, "Your wife is always right and you need to admit you are wrong" sounds like more of the original problem I started with in the beginning rather than any kind of worthwhile solution and I'm sure if I had gone along with this general advice every time my wife acted like she was really serious about something then it would have only made my marriage much worse (for me) and it would not really have made much of a long-term difference to my wife either.

See Pepperband's thread of sex advice. It's so right on. Sorry I don't know how to post links.

Hey .. great thread.

I used to have a porn addiction ... i feel that my use of it was directly related to the condition of my marriage. WHich (at the time) was absolutley horrible .. and the less my EN were met ... and the more i fought with my wife and the higher the stress levels were .. the more i turned to porn for gratification to relief my stress. Afterwards i would feel absolutly horrible for doing it and the result was even more frusteration. Its a HORRIBLE and VICIOUS cycle.

I am prooud to say I am porn free for darn nearly a year now.

Can any men shed light on the after affects of porn? MrNiceGuy said it above he felt awful.

What was it about the experience that made you feel awful? Are men realizing they aren't connecting to their wives?

When a man doesn't connect to his wife how does he feel?

Does he just compartmentalize it or does it cause him to internally turn to stone?

Those are some GREAT questions. Let me shed some light on them for you.

You asked.. "What was it about the experience that made you feel awful?"

It was much like the "high" people talk about here when someone has an affair. The visual stimulation feels great... in the moment while your high on it .. but when your done with it the after effects leave you feeling depressed and even more empty than before. My excuse was the porn would tide me over til my wife desired me becasue of the rejection or her lack or participation but in the end I felt degraded, and disgusting..

I felt depressed from the lack of connection I wanted with my wife.

I felt like I had betrayed my wife.

I felt lonely and sad, because it was an experience I was not having with my wife that I SOO badly wanted.

I felt embarassed and guilty about my sexual needs like there was something wrong with me.

I felt weak for not having any will power to be able to control my urges or express them to my wife without fear of rejection.

Then I would tell my self after wards each time "This was the LAST time" But for some reason it never was and i hated myself for that. But would often find myself, especially after a week or 2 of tough times with my wife and no need meeting or not of the quality i desired, back at it again and then all those feelings above along with the feeling of worthlessness would kick in. BUT it always felt justified and normal at first! IT was always after the fact that the other feelings kicked in. NEVER During or before... only after.

This would set my mood off and I would be insensitive towards my wife and kids that day if i used porn. I would be feeling resentment towards my wife, because I blamed her for my porn use due to unmet needs. I would be filled with shame because I was not able to stop and because I knew it was wrong but I would always justifiy it because my wife would tell me over and over to stop pressuring her and to let things happen naturally on their own (but my emotional needs would scream at me every few days, where my wife could happily wait weeks). AND SO I also blamed god that my sexual needs were so strong as i tried to pray them away.

This cycle of disconnect created a sexual aversion in my wife for the longest time that fueled the porn to continue. However .. I knew that if I could curb my thoughts and desires long enough and get my wife on board with MB .. that we could turn it all around. And we are 100x better now than when I was engulfed in this disgusting behavior.

You asked ... "When a man doesn't connect to his wife how does he feel?"

I feel insecure .. I feel lonely .. I feel like a pay cheque. I feel unimportant to my wife. I feel unloved.

You asked ... "Does he just compartmentalize it or does it cause him to internally turn to stone?"

It gets compartmentalized at first .. it gets put into a "its no big deal box" but when the other factors come into play the "no big deal box" gets overfilled and the porn spills out of the box first before everything else does that ends up in there. I would only turn to stone internally when I didnt feel safe to talk about it .. or had a solution that i felt would be win win so it would get stuffed back into the "no big deal box" as often as I could .. but it would always pop back out again as if it was saying .. "HEY YOU BETTER DEAL WITH ME OR THERE WILL BE TROUBLE!" and there always was .. one way or another.

Wow ... I said all that? Sorry if i repeated myself a bit. Kinda good to get out. I am SOOO greatful for marriage builders and my AMAZING WIFE! Hopefully this sheds some light on it ... infact it even helps me. No one has ever asked those questions. They are loaded ones thats for sure.

MNG

MNG covered it perfectly.

I have nothing to add to that.

Well, except for compartmentalization.

Porn isn't what get's compartmentalized.

Sorry, no. That's the part that's still alive.


What gets compartmentalized is that desire for a wife that isn't a cold, disconnected, dismissive, AO and DJ machine for whom nothing is ever enough.

That gets compartmentalized so that we can smile and move through the day.

Use of porn lets THAT out of the box.

Use of porn scratches that surface paint, and shows the pain underneath, rather than being anything "good."