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I did tell her our relationship was changed when she needed to reunite with her lover regardless of simple curiosity , need , lost love or whatever. For me to be more open to people of the opposite sex is not having an affair or wanting one. Knowing or realizing I have the looks , body, personality, professional status, education. Smile etc is something I never paid much attention to. I never took the time I guess. Right After all my schooling I looked for a wife. She was it. Immediately kids, career, house etc. now last child is close to graduating and I'm 50. Many things have changed and she drew one important aspect of it to the forefront.
H (me) = never wayward; age = 51; occup = attorney W = never wayward; age = 49; occup = law office admin Faith = Lutheran S = age 20 S = age 19 D = age 17 Married 1990, first for both Prior User Name "dec810" Marriage Builders 2001 "Evil will flourish, when good people do nothing"
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I did tell her our relationship was changed when she needed to reunite with her lover regardless of simple curiosity , need , lost love or whatever. For me to be more open to people of the opposite sex is not having an affair or wanting one. Knowing or realizing I have the looks , body, personality, professional status, education. Smile etc is something I never paid much attention to. I never took the time I guess. Right After all my schooling I looked for a wife. She was it. Immediately kids, career, house etc. now last child is close to graduating and I'm 50. Many things have changed and she drew one important aspect of it to the forefront. I have no idea what any of this means. Your relationship is not 'changed' you are still married. If you want to change it, get a divorce. Stop using vultures to puff up your vanity. They arent doing it for free - they expect to hook you. You are clearly headed for an affair and are taking revenge on your wife by showing her people find you attractive too. Grow up.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Knowing or realizing I have the looks , body, personality, professional status, education. Smile etc is something I never paid much attention to. If you KNOW this, what do you need the vultures for? Vanity. Stop it immediately. Or go to a website that supports inappropriate and selfish behaviour around the opposite sex. MB does not. You will not get support for that here. Have you read any MB material? Opposite Sex friends are banned in MB. That includes vultures.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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These people are not vultures. I would not associate with them if that were the case. They're nice people. People I would have never talked to before because they were too good looking, single, too outgoing or whatever
As far as growing up. I've done that in many regards and continue to do so. Thank you for your comments though.
H (me) = never wayward; age = 51; occup = attorney W = never wayward; age = 49; occup = law office admin Faith = Lutheran S = age 20 S = age 19 D = age 17 Married 1990, first for both Prior User Name "dec810" Marriage Builders 2001 "Evil will flourish, when good people do nothing"
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For me to be more open to people of the opposite sex is not having an affair or wanting one.  This is a very alarming statement. I don't know of any happily married people who have a goal of being more open to people of the opposite sex. That certainly is not one of my desires, and I would be very concerned if my H said it was one of his.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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These people are not vultures. I would not associate with them if that were the case. They're nice people. People I would have never talked to before because they were too good looking, single, too outgoing or whatever
As far as growing up. I've done that in many regards and continue to do so. Thank you for your comments though. Hmm really. To now know and realize the opportunities do exist for me at the gym, work, or business events is fulfilling. These nice women have let you know that they are an 'opportunity' Letting married men know that you are an opportunity doenst sound very nice to me. It sounds like someone who wants to pick over the bones of your wounded marriage. Not nice. But you may not discover that until about two years into your affairage that nice women only date single men. Any woman who approaches you now, is not marraige material. Even after you divorce, she'll still be a vulture. Good luck to you though.
Last edited by indiegirl; 06/16/12 09:16 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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No. Never taking the time to find out about people? Learn about their family background etc is be more communicative friendly personable. There is a lot I've forgone being too busy, too reserved, too shy, too unfriendly etc. I make a point of smiling more often. Saying hi etc. that is different for me. It has helped also in many other avenues in my career too. It now involves women and I believe in a politically correct manner.
H (me) = never wayward; age = 51; occup = attorney W = never wayward; age = 49; occup = law office admin Faith = Lutheran S = age 20 S = age 19 D = age 17 Married 1990, first for both Prior User Name "dec810" Marriage Builders 2001 "Evil will flourish, when good people do nothing"
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No. Never taking the time to find out about people? Learn about their family background etc is be more communicative friendly personable. There is a lot I've forgone being too busy, too reserved, too shy, too unfriendly etc. I make a point of smiling more often. Saying hi etc. that is different for me. It has helped also in many other avenues in my career too. It now involves women and I believe in a politically correct manner. First off, you werent talking about friends you were talking about flirting, opportunities and your ego. Plus friends arent OK either. Don't take my word for it, take the good doctor's. Are "Friends" a threat to your marriage? [/quote]
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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No. Never taking the time to find out about people? Learn about their family background etc is be more communicative friendly personable. There is a lot I've forgone being too busy, too reserved, too shy, too unfriendly etc. I make a point of smiling more often. Saying hi etc. that is different for me. It has helped also in many other avenues in my career too. It now involves women and I believe in a politically correct manner. well if your career and being politically correct is more important to you than fidelity you're doing great. However adultery and over familairity is rarely any good for careers If you are intent on having OS friendships, why are you ona site which opposes them?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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It seems to me that you are upset with her accepting a friendship on Facebook yet you are actively pursuing a new friendship with persons of the opposite sex.
One of Dr. Harley's main four principles is the Rule of Protection. Never do anything that upsets your spouse or makes them unhappy. If Facebook is upsetting you, the the two of you need to sit down and set boundaries regarding Facebook. Also, regarding you opening up yourself for flirting with other women, this needs to be discussed too. She needs to know how you feel about this and she needs to know this is where you are going. It is wrong. Do not do it! You will kill all intimacy in your marriage.
The two of you need to buy His Needs,Her Needs and Love Busters together so you can immediately incorporate the principles into your lives. Once you do, these conflicts your are having will most likely be solved using Dr. Harley's principles.
When you open up yourself to have other women meet your needs for admiration and affection, you will destroy your marriage. Trust me on this. This is what my husband did to our marriage and I am still hurt deeply and trying to recover. Don't do it. Read my thread if you want to see the train you are getting on. It will be a train wreck.
Last edited by TinT; 06/16/12 10:08 AM. Reason: Changed care to protection
TinT--Trouble in Texas
Me: 40 Husband: 38 Married for 17 years Together for 20 years DD15 DS13 DS4
H's EA discovered 1/1/12 Caller on radioshow 5/8/12 Been in counseling with SHarley since 5/17/12 On the road to recover my marriage
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No. Never taking the time to find out about people? Learn about their family background etc is be more communicative friendly personable. There is a lot I've forgone being too busy, too reserved, too shy, too unfriendly etc. I make a point of smiling more often. Saying hi etc. that is different for me. It has helped also in many other avenues in my career too. It now involves women and I believe in a politically correct manner. I find it astonishing that this is your priority when your marriage is in such trouble. What are you going to do about your MARRIAGE?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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She has done just that. She no longer visits her account, even though post our kids and her on her wall. I don't want her to not socialize with other friends (female or male no lovers) that she has on facebook. I don't understand. Are you saying she deleted her account, or she just doesn't visit it? She needs to delete her account entirely. There is a process for doing so that involves a two-week period where she can't go on her account, in order for the deletion process to finish. How is she on FaceBook at all?? Are you saying she'll be incapable of socializing with her friends if she's not on FaceBook?? How ever did we manage to have friends before FaceBook? 
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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No. Never taking the time to find out about people? Learn about their family background etc is be more communicative friendly personable. There is a lot I've forgone being too busy, too reserved, too shy, too unfriendly etc. I make a point of smiling more often. Saying hi etc. that is different for me. It has helped also in many other avenues in my career too. It now involves women and I believe in a politically correct manner. But your original quote indicated a much different goal than 'taking the time to find out about people.' That sounds very noble and all friendly-like, but that's not what you said: I now look to other women as 'options' since I am told I'm good looking and I am well to do. These two things are NOT the same. 
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Dec, moral people have affairs. People who start off believing it is wrong to have an affair, often have affairs. However when they are flattered into submission, as you have been. They 'tweak' the rules. The change, described by our most experienced veteran, looks like this. 1) It's wrong to have an affair. 2) Friendship is not an affair. 3) Affairs are only wrong if they threaten the marriage. This is a friendship-with-sex and does not threaten the marriage. 4) The outside relationship 'brightens' me, and is therefore good for the marriage. 5) Other people are inexperienced. They don't understand the power of a passionate friendship, and how enriching it is. 6) This affair is not wrong. In fact, I could not live without it This comment you made is the exact same as number 4. Maybe our marriage is now stronger because I have ventured out to be more open to other women? You're already in quite deep aren't you? That's why you are here. Stick around, read and stop this madness.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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15 Steps of Unfaithfulness
How does adultery "happen?" People don't just decide one day to hop in bed and be unfaithful to their spouse. Adultery is the culminating act of a dozen or more tiny steps of unfaithfulness.
1. Sharing Common Interests. "We just had so much in common, it was uncanny."
"She and I both enjoyed music, and we were attracted to each other."
"He was so spiritually-minded... I'd been looking for someone to share my spiritual struggles with."
2. Mentally comparing with my mate. "My husband wasn't interested much in spiritual things, but this man knew so much about the Bible."
"She was so understanding and would listen to me and my hurts -- my wife was always so busy and rushed that we didn't have the time to talk.
3. Meeting emotional needs. "He understood how I was feeling and offered me the empathy I was hungering for."
"She was there when I needed her."
"My ego was so starved for affirmation that I would have taken it from anyone -- I guess that's what started the whole thing."
4. Looking forward to being together. "I used to dread going to work, but after we started our friendship, I would wake up thinking of how I would see him later that day... it seemed to make getting up easier."
"I would think of being with her the whole time I was driving to work."
5. Tinges of dishonesty with my mate. "When my wife would ask if she was with the group I'd pretend I couldn't remember... right there I started building a wall between us."
"I would act like I was going to practice with our ensemble, but actually I was practicing a duet with him."
"Once my wife asked about her, but I denied everything, after all, we hadn't done anything wrong yet. Now I see that this was one of those exit points where I could have come clean and got off the road I was speeding down."
6. Flirting and teasing. "I could tell from the way she looked at me. She would gaze directly into my eyes, then furtively glance down my body then back into my eyes again -- I knew then that she was interested in more than my friendship. But, I was so flattered by her interest that I couldn't escape."
"Then we started teasing each other, often with double-meaning kind of things. Sometimes we'd tease each other even when we were together as two couples. It seemed innocent enough at first, but more and more we knew it really did mean something to us."
"We would laugh and talk about how it seemed like we were "made for each other" so much. Then we'd tease each other about what kind of husband or wife the other one would have been if we'd married each other."
"He had those killer eyes. When he'd look at me in that "special way" I would just melt. It was hopeless fighting my urges -- he had me."
7. Talking about personal matters. "We would talk about things -- not big things, just little things which he cared about, or I was worried about."
"We'd meet together for coffee before church and just talk together."
"I was having problems with my son and she seemed to understand the whole situation so much better than anyone else I talked with. I'd tell her about the most recent blow-up and she would understand so well. We just became really deep friends -- almost soul-mates. That's what's so weird about all this -- we never intended for it to go this far."
"I had lost my Dad just before we got to know each other and he had lost his mother a few years earlier. He seemed to understand exactly what I was going through and we would talk for hours about how each of us felt."
"I was so lonely since my husband died and hungry for someone to share life with. Then he began to call just because he cared. I loved hearing his caring voice at the other end of the line, even though I knew he was married."
"We spent so much time together at work that I swear she knew more about me than my wife ever did -- or even cared to know."
8. Minor yet arousing touch, squeeze, or hug. "He never touched me for months. Then one night after working late, we were walking toward the door when he said 'You're so special, thanks for all you do..." then he turned and hugged me tenderly, just for a second. I loved how I felt for that moment so much that I began to replay it over and over again in my mind like a videotape. Now I know that I should have stopped it all right then. I never intended to ruin my family like this."
"She was always hanging around our house and was my wife's best friend. Often she would stay late to watch TV, even after my wife went to bed. She would sit beside me on the couch and I was drawn to her like the song says... like a moth to the flame."
"He would often pat me on the shoulder -- you know, in appreciation for a good job I'd done. But I knew it meant more than that."
"The first time she touched me was when we were doing registration together. We were sitting beside each other. I'd say something cute or funny and she would giggle, then under the table she'd squeeze the top of my leg with her hand. That was really exciting to me."
"Every time she shook hands with me at the door she seemed to linger, sort of holding my hand more than shaking it. No one else would notice, but I knew there was more to her touch than appeared to the eyes. She knew too."
9. Special notes or gifts. "He would write these little encouraging notes and leave them in my desk, pocketbook, or taped to my computer. They didn't say anything which could be traced. If anyone found them they wouldn't suspect anything. But we both knew what was going on, we just didn't want to stop yet."
"I would sometimes call him and leave a short message on his answering machine. He would leave little notes in my Bible."
"He would buy me a little gift -- not that expensive, but it always showed he had taken extra thought to get exactly what I liked. Of course everyone else thought he was just being a good boss."
"She started leaving unsigned notes to me in my desk sharing her feelings for me. It scared me at first, because I thought someone would find one. But after a while I found myself looking forward to the next one, even though I knew the risk."
10. Inventing excuses to call or meet. "I started figuring out ways I could drop off something at her house when her husband was gone. He and I knew each other and I would always return borrowed tools in the afternoon when I knew she'd be there alone."
"I would wait until the end of the workday then I'd call him just before closing time about something I'd made up as a 'business question' and we'd talk."
"The more entangled we got, the more I planned times where he and I could practice together. We started meeting more often."
"She started arranging her schedule so that her husband dropped her off at committee meetings. I would hang around and offer to take her home, acting with as much nonchalance as I could muster up."
11. Arranging secret meetings. "By now we both were so far gone that we started meeting secretly at the mall parking lot. It know now how foolish this was, but I was driven by something other than good sense at that time."
"We started arranging to work evenings on the same nights, then we would leave early and meet each other in the dark parking lot."
"I started making sure he knew my travel schedule so we could attend the same conferences. We still weren't involved physically at that time, but there was such excitement and romance to it all... even the secrecy seemed to make it more exciting."
"She would sometimes call me just before lunch and we'd sneak through a drive-up together, and then spend the rest of my lunch hour talking quietly to each other."
12. Deceit and cover ups. "Once we were meeting secretly I had to invent all kinds of stories about where I'd been to satisfy my wife. By now I had built a towering wall of dishonesty between us."
"Pretty soon my whole life was full of lies. I'd lie about where I was going, where I'd been, and who I'd been with. The more suspicious my husband got, the better liar I became. But he knew something was going on. It's hard to lie without people suspecting it."
"I joined several groups so that I would have an excuse to be away in the evenings."
"She would ask when I'd gotten off work. I'd simply lie about it, and she never knew what hit her. How can I ever regain her trust now?"
"We agreed that if anyone saw us driving around we would both tell the same story: that my car wouldn't start, he stopped to help, an we were going together to get a new fuse to replace the broken one he'd discovered."
"By now my whole life was a lie, so I began telling them regularly to cover up our little meetings."
13. Kissing and embracing. "The whole thing seemed so exciting by now. I was such a fool. We were meeting secretly and both of us were fearful of being caught. But that only seemed to increase our common ground. When we'd meet, we would embrace as if we'd not been together for years -- like in the movies when someone comes home from the war."
"Once we started meeting secretly the end came fast. We kissed and hugged like two teenagers going parking for their first time."
"It just felt so good to be hugged and loved by somebody who really cared about me."
14. Petting and high indiscretion. "At this point my glands took over. I forgot reason altogether and was willing to risk everything for more."
"It was like I was a teenager again -- going too far, then repenting and promising to do better; then just as quick I was hungrily seeking more sin."
"When my husband and I were dating we struggled with 'how far to go.' Well, here I was again struggling over the same issue. Friendship with this guy didn't seem so wrong. But now were we're going further than I ever intended. But, I felt curiously justified going exactly as far as I had with my husband when had been dating. In a way, I think some of my resentment against my husband's constant pressure on me started coming out. I'm not saying that it wasn't wrong. Just that I kind of felt justified."
"At about this time I began fooling myself into thinking I was heroic for not going "all the way." That's what I wanted to do. But by doing "everything but" I fooled myself into thinking I was successfully resisting temptation. What I didn't realize was that, not only was what I was doing wrong, but that eventually I would take the next step. It's just not possible to freeze a relationship -- you have to go ahead with it, or break it off totally."
15. Sexual intercourse. "Soon I quit resisting and was swept into outright adultery."
"One thing led to another and finally we ended up in bed with each other."
"Though we never intended it to go that far, we eventually went all the way and had sex."
"One night we couldn't seem to stop ourselves (at least we didn't want to) so I completed my journey of unfaithfulness to my husband -- I had sex with this man."
Last edited by indiegirl; 06/16/12 09:56 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Thank you for your input. There is much going on We've both talked about how much is going on in our lives. Both hitting 50. Kids leaving careers progressing and distinct paths which were not merging. This mistake, need, curiosity to reunite has shaken things considerably. As I mentioned in a prior post I'm looking for input. See for me I know of noone other than my wife. I thought that was good but now it seems not so good. I now wonder yes probably the pasture on the other side of the fence. Again many different thoughts are now rummaging around. And I have told her this too. Our marriage has changed as a consequence of this event or for a compilation of it with other things. That raises issues too as to why such change after 20 years? Many many different things have expressed themselves in a short period of time
H (me) = never wayward; age = 51; occup = attorney W = never wayward; age = 49; occup = law office admin Faith = Lutheran S = age 20 S = age 19 D = age 17 Married 1990, first for both Prior User Name "dec810" Marriage Builders 2001 "Evil will flourish, when good people do nothing"
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OMG,
Famous last words before an affair " I am not going to have an affair". Do you think anyone who actually has an affair plans it? I'm no mathematician but I would guess that 95% of the people that do, do not set out to have one. The fact that you are even stating that possibilities are fufilling to you is wrong.
Last summer I started having feelings for OM. Nothing serious but talking to him was fufulling and I thought I could handle it. In fact, if you would have bet me a million bucks at that time that I would have an affair I would have taken the bet.
By September I was in a PA and destroying my life and family. I wish I would have had someone telling me about this site and how to stay out of the fog. Do yourself a favor and stop now!!! Don't try to "get back" at your wife by keeping your options open. Talk to her and tell her how you feel and what you are thinking.
Me (WS) Husband (BS) DS - 15 DD -10 My D-day - 11/12/11
Today Me (BS) H (WS) D-Day #2 01/14/12 I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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I thought that was good but now it seems not so good. I now wonder yes probably the pasture on the other side of the fence. Exactly. The grass is not greener on the other side, it is greener where you water it. Are you and your wife likely to be both on board with a full MB recovery?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I have no intentions of having an affair. Simply going from a non interactive man to an interactive man is different. To now know and realize the opportunities do exist for me at the gym, work, or business events is fulfilling. Is it also fulfilling to know that opportunities exist for you to steal, rob, rape and murder?  How would the opportunity to commit adultery be any different? Anyone can be a scumbag, it is not fulfilling. People are happy as a result of being good, not bad. Adultery is never fulfilling to the participants. Rather it is degrading, destructive and humiliating; it ruins lives. You have somehow fantasized that being desirous to other women is flattering. It is not, Sir. Any woman who would have an affair with a married man is a skank who does not care about you. Any loser can pick up a skank, that is no great feat. They are a dime a dozen. If you want to be fulfilled, then stop harping about your wife's old BF and work on creating a fantastic, life changing chemistry with her. You won't do that by dragging up this incident over and over again. You should be focused on creating a fantastic chemistry with your wife. That will help you both forget her old boyfriend and it will help you get over being "flattered" by skanks.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I think it is amazing that you have only been with your wife. I wish I could say that. My H was my first and I have tainted it twice...it disgust me. I would trade anything to be in your place. And let me tell you this, for me the sex was not better it was worse because I was filled with guilt and disgust for being so week.
If you are not satisfied with your sex life, make it better with yout OWN WIFE!!
Me (WS) Husband (BS) DS - 15 DD -10 My D-day - 11/12/11
Today Me (BS) H (WS) D-Day #2 01/14/12 I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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