You can call me HT.

I am here because I need your help, advice and support. Recently, I started getting some unusual and uncomfortable vibes from my wife. I tried to be more observant and I started to do some snooping.
Well, now I am here. So, you know I found what I still find too hard to say.

I know you need more info about us as well as details of our troubles to be of any help. I will follow with much more detail. I have stared at the hurdle of the first post for two weeks and I need to get past it. Some of my hesitation is knowing what is relevant to write and what is whining. I will start with the facts then summarize how we got here. OF course, I will provide any requested specifics.

I have been reading all I can find time for here and elsewhere. For a while, I was finding all of the answers I needed through writings of Dr Harley and others. I�ve derived support through the encouraging words of many here and being inspired by the courage of the many people who look like me.

Me: late 40�s, FT employed, limited travel for work.
Wife: Mid 40�s, FT employed, Some travel for recreation.

We: Married 12 years. First date 20 years ago. First marriage for both of us. Some typical ups-downs throughout the marriage but no previous wants or talks of separation or divorce etc. No previous infidelity for either of us (as far as I know of but do not think or feel there was). There is no substance or physical abuse. We have no children. (Thank God�Going through this is so hard; I could not imagine it with adding their needs in the process.) My bookstore does not have a His Needs, Her needs and the Children�s needs, so I would really be in trouble.

OM: Mid 30�s, Happily Married (So says his facebook status), Recreational �Friend� of my wife. We attended his wedding 18 months ago.

The first things my snooping uncovered was a new PO Box, & Bank account. I also found some apartment hunting. I found email/texts/docs that explained some missing time/secretive behavior that got me uneasy at first. I found all of this over about a three week period that was three weeks ago. It was all very recent and somewhat unfolding before me.

I saw lots of communication between her and the OM. She confided to him that she wanted to leave the marriage and the PO Box, Bank acct. etc. I found no evidence of a PA. She did say many things that are inappropriate and were hurtful to me. She expresses allot of adoration for him and some dissatisfaction with me. She clearly has at least a serious crush him, not so much on me. There is no other communication between friends and family that mention OM or marriage trouble. Again, this was over a three-week period that ended about three weeks ago.

When I am finding this I did not know anything about anything. I did not know about all of the EN�s I was no longer meeting, that there is such a thing as an EA or recognize the slow falling apart of our marriage.

I was devastated and having a hard time managing my emotions. �I hope she leaves, I hate her. I cannot let her go, what would I do without her�. One day I conclude that she is all but gone and with another man now. The next day I am sure that she really does not want to leave. She is just crying out for more of my attention. After all, I have hundreds of their private messages and none indicates any sort of inappropriate meeting or PA. (They do have a legitimate reason for communication). Moreover, OM has never reciprocated inappropriately in any communication. If OM�s wife saw only his side of their messages, her concern if any, would be the volume only. So me thinking� �I�m pretty sure I am feeling paranoid and this PA thing must be in my head.�

So then I came to MB for some good reading on EN�s LB�s etc so I can learn to start earning back my wife�s love. Unfortunately, the lure of the infidelity forum wins my attention and all I see are situations just like mine with walking like duck�s and Dudes in Denial. Then[i][/i] me thinking�.. �They are right; of course, she is screwing him.�


I have to go for now. I�ll continue.

Thanks again MBers.

Is there an actual ongoing affair or is there a one-sided crush going on? I am not clear on this point. What did she say that is inappropriate? I agree that her friendship is inappropriate and should be stopped, but I am unclear on how far this has gone.

Welcome to Marriage Builders!

Does this mean she takes vacations without you?

I don�t yet know for sure how far it has gone. All of the classic signs are that she is deeply attached to him. If I look at any of those typical �Is your spouse having an affair?� tests, all answers point to yes.

There are hundreds of texts per week. 6:00 am to 11:00 pm Many phone calls per day.

The main reason I have any doubt if it has gone PA is that I have access to so much info that they think is private and there is no evidence of any PA or relationship talk. No �I Miss you � etc. He rarely replies or engages in personal conversation.

No Not Vacations. She is getting good at her thing and is starting to need to travel over nights and weekends a few times a year. I most often go along but sometimes not. I never had any reason to be concerned until now.

One of the clues that started this was her not wanting me to come along on the most recent overnight, as this was �The Big one she was working so hard for and I would be too much a distraction.� As this was one of the first things that triggered my suspicions I didn�t think too much into it.

How much traveling are you doing?

Not much for me. Maybe a one or two night trip 2-3 times a year. However, I did have a rare and longest trip ever of a week right in the middle of my discovery of all this.

It was probably a blessing because it forced a time out, and gave me some time to figure out what I wanted and what I was going to about this.


During this three weeks, the tension between us was thick.

About a week after I found the bank and apartment stuff but not much else yet, she asked if I could manage all of the household expenses without her income. This was shortly after she picked a mini argument on something else. I responded with things like �What does that mean? Are you planning to move out? She said �I�m not sure what I am planning�. No, I have not made other living arrangements. I just want to know if you can afford the house. We were not arguing or anything about it, just a serious talk. I said that it was a lot to take in; I need to think for a while.

A few hours later, I asked what was going on? What brought this up? Is there something I can help you with? She was especially cold, detached. Her attitude was like �Gosh, it was just a stupid question, just drop it already�. I answered; �well, I thought about it, and if you feel that you need to leave, I will be fine with the house.�

For the next few days she would not engage in anything more than superficial talk. She behaved as if everything was normal, but emotionally was very distant. �Baby, we are in the middle of discussing you leaving and you are through talking about it? What is that about?�

This is when I have to take the trip for a week. The night before I left, I told her that I wanted to be treated with honesty and respect and that I would do the same; That if she really wanted to leave I would respect that and not try to circumvent it. I don�t want to find out she left by coming home to a note. She agreed and said that she will be there when I get back. We were cordial and we both cried over it. Still detached but there was a few tears. She drove me to the Airport as if all is good with the world.

That night I also installed phone and PC monitors. My work required my attendance on Thurs. Fri and Mon. I travelled out on Wed. and back the Next Tue so I had lots of time to myself. That is when I was reading all I could

I have to go for now.

Cut to today�Ill go back and fill in relevant details later.

I decided during my trip that regardless of the nature of the affair, I wanted to try to recover my marriage and get my wife back. Since then, I have been doing all of the Plan A type things I can. There have been no material changes in what I find while monitoring. The person in my wife�s body is warming up a each week. But rarely does she resemble my wife. Her EA appears unchanged.

I want to get my wife back. I have no interest in staying for very long with the person who inhabits her body.

I fear that confronting with what I have will be week and move things in the wrong direction. I don�t have enough to do any exposure. Heck, just two months ago I did not know what a EA was or would have thought it was big deal anyway. I might only get one shot at slaying the alien and waking up my wife and this alien is tough.

I don�t want to enable much longer. My situation no longer resembles any that I have found here with a clear plan. I sometimes hope I find PA proof so I can begin to fight for this.

Prepare yourself for exposure. Have you read MelodyLane's exposure 101? You have enough for EXPOSURE, and getting a little more may benefit you. The thing here is no matter what this is very inappropriate behavior for two married folks to engage. It has already crossed the line, and she has now crossed over to wayward. Once they go wayward their inhibitions can't be tamed.

There are two key points to keep in mind. 1st it is more likely than not the affair getting extremely close to physical.

Second, getting all the details ready to expose to the Other Man's Wife. That you want to be ready ... IF it is only an EA, then getting OMW's wife may end it here and now. She may be your best advocate. Keep all your texts for her ...

Read Mel's Exposure thread. Continue Plan A ...

What were her main complaints to you about your relationship before this EA started?

HT - reading you talk about 'the alien' that is inhabiting your wife gave me chills. I remember feeling and thinking the exact same thing when my wife revealed her sudden decision our marriage was ending. I seriously didn't know the person on the other end of the line. My wife was having an EA - but it was mild and more symbolic of a possible future than an actual alternative... does that make sense? Her EA triggered her desire for something different, even though she knew the OM in question was not really a viable long term option.

I wonder if the same thing is happening with your wife?

It seems she is certainly checking out of your marriage. I can't tell if she is hoping to land in the arms of someone specific or if it is just the idea of someone and something different is driving her.

The awesome thing about Harley's material is it gives you a straight forward game plan, an action-oriented strategy that is your very best chance at recovering your marriage.

Absolutely keep snooping. If your wife is in an EA the toxic, mind-warping effects of it will make recovery impossible.

But work your Plan A with equal zeal. Don't make the frequently seen mistake of winning the battle (exposure) but losing the war (recovery.) I've seen people on this forum who go nuclear against a perceived affair, dropping major LBs in their righteous anger and destroy any vestige of a salvagable relationship in the process. An EA/PA if present must be uncovered - but the real endpoint is restoring love in your marriage. Do everything you do out of love for your wife and a desire for your mutual happiness together. Remember this.

Another great thing about Harley is he divides the responsibility for an affair evenly between both parties. If your wife is having an EA, you carry part of the responsibility for not protecting her well enough by meeting her most important ENs. True, nothing excuses her poor boundaries but had you done a better job at meeting ENs and avoiding LBs she might not be where she is now. She would not be as vulnerable to an affair. This fact should motivate you equally to diligent snooping and major relationship overhaul.

Get and read Fall In Love, Stay In Love, Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs. The website material is great but it is no substitute for the books. I read surviving an affair too. It didn't have the same impact on me as the other books, but it may be a good one to start with for you.

What are your wife's ENs? What are you doing to meet them?

What are your LBs against her? What are you doing to avoid them?

Sorry you're here, but glad you're here =) Properly employed, Harley's approach to marriage building works, even in your difficult situation. In fact without something major many of us would not be motivated to make the changes required for the ideal marriage Harley describes.

BWS

I think it's important to understand that Plan A is both a carrot and a stick. Plan A involves doing your best to bust up the affair, ie: exposing it, confronting the OM, etc and showing your WS that you will do your best to meet her needs in the future if she ends her affair. A proper Plan A has to be a good balance of BOTH in order to be effective.

The responsibility for the affair belongs 100% to the wayward spouse. In some cases, the BS is responsible for not meeting the WS's needs, which contributed to the crippled state of the marriage. [sometimes unwittingly, with traveling jobs, etc] In other marriages, the BS *DID* meet the needs of the WS, so it was not a lack of needs being met that is responsible for the affair.

Even if the BS was satisfactorily meeting ALL of the WS's needs, an affair would be likely if the WS has loose boundaries. In my marriage, I met all of my husbands needs very well and he still had an affair because had poor boundaries around women. And I don't say that because I am in denial, but as a result of my own H's questionaire that was administered to him by a marriage counselor who used Marriage Builders. So no, I was not responsible for my H's affair and I was not responsible for a poor marriage.

In EVERY case of an affair, loose boundaries is a culprit. If the marriage was in a bad state, the WS was obviously vulnerable to an affair and should have tightened up boundaries with the opposite sex, not loosened them. So one of the first steps after an affair is to change the environment that led to the affair. Almost always it is poor boundaries around members of the opposite sex.

And lastly, the book this poster should get is Surviving an Affair. His Needs Her Needs was not written for those in marriages that have had affairs; it was written for those who have NOT experienced affairs to scare them out of bad behaviors. Many a wayward spouse has used the teachings in HNHN to assign blame to her/his BS for her affair. He needs to stick to SAA.

Is this guy married? Do you know who he is?

I have read Exposure 101 and will again many more times Im sure. I want more before exposure. If not A evidence than a better ability to express and convey how wrong the ongoing EA is both to her and those i expose to.

If I got an exposure letter an claiming an EA about an friend, I don't know if it would have had much of an impact before I knew what I know now about EA's.

Now I am sure exposing to OM's wife will have a BIG impact. I have considered it many times. But I don't know how she will handle it, follow through, etc. I still fear it can push things underground.

What were her main complaints to you about your relationship before this EA started? [/quote]

That I have lost alot of my ambition and drive. She is correct. There more is more to this that is relevant here. I'll follow with more details when I have more time.

Overall though, As I read about EN's I am discovering exactly how where and why we became so vulnerable. This stuff should be required reading for married people. Someone need to print it on cereal boxes. One every month.

HT, my suggestion would be to go to her and tell her you know everything. Tell her you know she is talking to this guy 50+ times a day and that she is planning on moving, etc. Tell her everything. Don't tell her how you know, but lay it all out there. If she asks how you know, tell her you are keeping your resources to yourself and won't tell.

Tell her you love her and you want to change your marriage into a romantic, happy place that she does not feel the need to escape from. Ask her to end her relationship with this man and commit to this marriage program with you.

I would have a plan in place before you have this talk with her because no plan to change your marriage is a plan to fail.

The best thing that you could do is counsel with the Harleys. They are the absolute best in the business and their program really does work. I figure you have ONE SHOT to get her on board and you can't afford to squander it on your typical garden variety marriage counselor. Marriage counselors don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population.

The Harleys are completely different in that they have an action oriented, detailed program that really does produce results. And it works fairly fast. So if you can get her on board, I would run with them.

But the first step has to be honesty on both your parts. [except for your snooping resources!]

I would also plan on meeting up with this guy and telling him to hit the road, in addition to calling up his wife and giving her everything you have.

I do believe this is an emotional affair, but I believe it is very one sided at this point. It sounds to me like your wife has a crush on him that is not being reciprocated FOR NOW.

Thanks for your kind words BWS71.

I got the alien thing from posters here. Maybe from you, I saw it referenced a few times. It was prolly the the most helpful thing I read here. The person I married would quickly see the impact of the EA and would run away in deep remorse. However, since getting the love bug alien addiction, not so much.

HT, it will be CRITICAL to your success to run the OM off. All of your efforts will avail very little if you can't run this guy off, because as long as he is around, her little fantasy will thrive and grow. He is meeting her emotional need for conversation, which is very powerful, I suspect. If he is meeting that need, you won't be able to have much success doing it.

So focus on running him off. DEMAND that she end her friendship. This is absolutely critical to your success.

Look at it like this: the OM is to your wife what crack is to the crackhead. The crackhead can't recover until he steps away from the crack pipe. It is the same with your wife. She will remain high on the affair crack as long as he is hanging around. So, get rid of him. Run him off.

One of the reasons you need to get in touch with the OM's wife is so you can compare dates when they were out of town. You may find that the affair has gone to the next level and they were both gone on those weekends.

Mrs. Lane Thank you for taking the to help.

I agree with everything you said. No question he is filling the conversation EN but I am making great headway there. It is the recreational one that that I cant seem to crack back into.

I agree that running off the OM is the ticket.

The part that I am having trouble getting my head around is how to create a big enough destruction of the fantasy. I think I need to eliminate the crack not just demand she stay away.

Nuclear Exposure of a real affair would certainly do it. His wife and the community would be very supportive post exposure.

He is kind of a rock star in their world. My wife isn't the first and wont be his last groupie. I think what I have could be spun into; paranoid jealous husband does not like his wife spending so much time from home. Most people in their community deal with this.

She is coocoo for cocoa puffs so I cant rely on a reasonable response to my reasonable demands.