You're 100% positive she's not talking with an OM?

No, I was very suspicious of the tennis pro...but, mind you I've always been jealous and psychotic. Calls here on days he's off to confirm lessons...when his wife died in ca accident my wife was an emotional crutch. He supposedly has a girlfriend that had a similiar early death situation and she mocks him as being worse than me. Yet, last July she left early with him when our vacation in CO got long and I stayed a few more days with our son, his 15 yo and his friend. Said that the stopped by his vacation home where he cried non-stop missing his wife who dies the previous Oct in car accident. I fear saying this because I beat this to death and she affirmed that anything she'd do would not be the end of our marriage but my actions and words. And I believe that.

The paid coaching/counseling from the Marriage Builders office is with either Dr. Chalmers (Dr. Harley's daughter) or Steve Harley (Dr. Harley's son). You can talk to Dr. Harley free on his radio show: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html . If your wife is interested, you can also sign up for the Marriage Builders online seminar and have access to Dr. Harley to ask questions on his private forum.

I've done all of the above except for talking to Dr. Chalmers. I recommend any of them.

OM - an 84yo married man is her best friend

Yea, my wife is way over that. She would rattle off countless other MC failed attempts years ago.

Don't fight with her. You should just stop it.

Again, if she starts how do I AVOID a fight?

You do realize she is having an affair, right?

The problem is that you are openly accusing her of her affair, which she just denies. She can continue to deny it until you quietly get the evidence. You don't need her admission to know it is an affair, you need the FACTS and EVIDENCE.

So I would stop fighting, stop accusing and start snooping. Get the evidence of the affair and come back here.


Dr Bill Harley: "Jealousy is a normal reaction to a threat to marriage. It's not a Love Buster."

Any NORMAL person would be upset and suspicious - "jealous" - if his wife left the family vacation early to go to the home of another man. My husband wouldn't tolerate that for 2 seconds. Her BEHAVIOR is what is not normal and acceptable for a married person.

Fighting is choice. You choose not to fight.

I used to wonder about that a lot, too. When I came here I would ask something just like that.

We can teach you, but it's going to take some calming down and some practice on your part.

Here's how to avoid a fight:
When your wife becomes demanding, disrespectful, or angry, do not say anything that she could interpret as being demanding, disrespectful, or angry on your part. If necessary, say nothing at all. Whatever you do, do not say or do anything if you are angry or frustrated; wait until you calm down.

Now the thing is, when you do this, your wife may respond by becoming demanding, disrespectful, or angry. Even more so than she already was. Your temptation at that point will be to conclude "it didn't work," and then you feel that there is no way to avoid the fight, and then you plunge right on in, hoping to finally get things straightened out. In the process, you are making selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts; you probably don't notice all (or any) of them, but your wife's Love Bank does, and you are making massive withdrawals in your account, making it that much harder to have a good relationship in the future.

The answer to "how do I avoid a fight when my wife is bucking for one?" is to never say or do anything that your wife feels is demanding, disrespectful, or angry. But the real question you are asking may be "how do I MAKE my wife stop being demanding, disrespectful, or angry toward me?" That's a much harder question, something you can't just do, because you can't control her. However, you can win her back to a relationship of mutual care where this kind of thing won't be tolerated.

Don't get those two questions confused, and don't ever let her demands, disrespect, or anger become an excuse for you to respond in kind. An eye for an eye simply leaves everyone blind.

MelodyLane is identifying the real issue for you. You need to bust up this affair so that you will have a chance of winning your wife back to a relationship of mutual care.

I did all the snooping and never found anything...phones, locations, text. Her affair has been tennis...lives eats breathes it.

She is baiting you and using your angry reaction as ammunition to justify her affair. She is playing you! Don't take the bait the next time!

If I can stop fighting, anyone can. If you look up Proverbs 21:9 you will see my picture there:

It is better to dwell in a corner of the house-top, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.

If I can change, so can you! Just stop it!

I would become a better snooper because I don't believe there is not an affair. Tell me EXACTLY what your spy resources are. What do you mean by "phones, locations, text?"

I had free MyLookout on all phones (gps), I would peruse calls on TMobile and the house phone than I'd sneak thru her phone. She found out and I told her and erased from phones and had my assistant change pw on T and Cox. I was going crazy and the wife said see - nothing? Than on the 5th she got prepaid phone that I found and only had atty, dad and b-in-law calls (her sister had nasty D that lasted yrs, drugs, alcohol and than heart death). What should I do to better snoop...and yet even if than what? She wins either way

She probably has a secret cell phone somewhere she is using just for him. I would put a voice activated recorder in her car along with a GPS. Can you afford to hire a PI for a couple of days? A PI can usually get the goods very quickly if you hire them to work on days that the WS is inclined to see the OP.

Can you get to her cell phone to slip some spyware on it?


If what? In order to save your marriage you have to be informed of what the real problem is, of course. If she is having an affair, then nothing you do will make an impact on your marriage.

What I think is really happening is that your wife is having an affair but is keeping you off balance by baiting you with fights. As long as you are fighting with her, you are distracted from what she is really doing.

She has said the marriage is dead based on my emotional abuse and lack of empathy. I found the pp phone and only had atty, dad and binlaw calls...she doesn't even hide it and mocks my snooping. Her dad said no way

Yes, all this is typical. After all, if the marriage is dead, that makes a great excuse to cat around while single, and/or abuse one's husband or wife.

Many, many people have come back from marriages full of these comments by 1) disrupting the affair until it dies, and 2) using this program to reestablish romantic love.

Welcome to MB ewh. Sorry you find yourself here. I agree with Mel .. your wife IS having an affair and has been gaslighting you into thinking shes not. Get a keylogger on your PC! and QUIETLY snoop to see what she is up to .. I also suggest the VAR in her car to pick up any convo she is having with OM while she is driving.

Read this too .. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8501_fft.html _ "what is an affair"

Listen to the vets.. they will get you going down the right track. Also i see your going to phone in the coaching center? THats a great idea.

Get going on a STELLAR plan A and meet your wifes top needs without expectations... and KILL YOUR DESPERATION! (read the link in my sig to hlp with that part)

MNG