Because he swim in waywardness right now...he isn't repentant and isn't serious about your marriage. Prepare for Plan B.

The NCL is absolutely essential to recovery...it is the first step on a very narrow path to recovery.

Do you want to delete your initial post, or delete the truth? It shouldn't annoy you - it should keep you on task. Don't be afraid, Strugglg!

He is very wayward and may well be still involved with OW. Are you planning to go to Plan B?? He will need to leave if he is not willing to recover your marriage.

Thank you, Praying Incessantly and MaritalBliss.

I just reviewed Plan A and Plan B.

Husband and youngest child home. Child is a prayerful person, goes to an excellent Christian college. Expressed confidence Dad and Mom will come through this. Listened to me carefully as I explained that I wanted to tell kids what happened because they should know and also so they can take warning and not get trapped as my WH did. Child nodded; did not divulge content of WH's talk, but confirmed that pastor at college said things in accord with exposure and with the policy of radical honesty.

All to bed peacefully, but after WH fell asleep (us two reading, not talking), I realized I cannot sleep nor continue w/o NCL.

Not sure I've done Plan A so well. I was very insistent about NCL -- may have overstepped boundaries of respect, though I never raised my voice, said anything insulting, etc. -- just kept insisting against WH's resistance.


Not ready for Plan B. Dr. Harley comments on its risks. Would I leave or make WH leave? So difficult. I will pray and consider the scenarios.

It IS a risk. One that a brave, strong betrayed person makes to protect their spirit from continued direct abuse of betrayel. It is critical that you do a decent Plan A directly into transitioning to a Plan B.

You would have WH leave.

Thank you, Reading,

I reviewed a link on how to implement Plan B.

My disappointment over WH's refusal to implement NCL pushes me toward plan B. The specter of losing a very beautiful family life devastates me.

Exposure to kids and some church friends is not a week old and I feel I am still in Plan A. My husband and I talked in the wee hours of this morning. I felt some progress happening b/c he started saying things like, "You really feel I have to do this [NCL] and maybe I should, but we should both be ready for it." I did not point out that "ready" is now, not something he can just do when he thinks he feels like it, because historically, during these monologues with me listening, he talks himself toward doing what is right. If I raise an opposing point the progress toward what is right stops and a new pointless argument starts.

I don't think he so much really wants OW as he wants not to feel his hand has been forced or that he has been made to appear "a horrible husband and father," as he put it.

I realize my marriage is in serious danger and Plan A cannot continue forever.

He spoke with his sister last night and she told him the EA is none of our kids' business. I plan to call her and point out that if my husband attacks the core of our sacred marriage covenant (its exclusivity), that is very much our children's business, and a lot of other people's too.

Big transition in my thinking for which I thank MB.

He's trying to gaslight you so you don't have him write the NCL.

If he was truly remorseful he'd write it.

Here.
Please explain gaslighting

Yes, Brainhurts, I agree.

I'm familiar with the term gaslighting, but reading the post showed me a list of phrases whose intent, if not exact wording, is so like things my husband says, it's like someone was following him around with a notebook.

Yesterday afternoon during a go-round he suddenly said he HAD written that OW should not contact him anymore. I exclaimed that he never told me that -- it would have made so much difference. He claims that "according to agreement," when last w/counselor Oct. 2011, when an e-mail came from OW shortly after he sent a reply saying he would not respond to any more contacts.

"Why do you think there haven't been any more contacts?" he asked. "I stuck with the agreement. That's why I keep saying this No Contact letter is unnecessary."

Not true. He had been saying the NCL did not accord with Christian reconciliation and forgiveness.

I was set back a little but then pointed out that he did NOT follow our agreement b/c I was supposed to see all future communication from OW and was supposed to be there for the NC response.

Same thing this afternoon -- he can converse by cell phone while working for a while -- had a similar go-round until he finally yelled, "All right! Once again you have shown me the error of my ways and how miserably I failed you! I'm not coming home!"

But I am determined to get my NCL.

As I write, I realize how much my WS does gaslight about most things. In his deeds he mostly comes through -- not a gambler etc., always gone to jobs he has often hated to support his family, ran up bills never for some fancy car but for home improvements or to take the kids somewhere -- problem was he did independent expenses of this nature w/o plan w/me, so prior plans of ours for education and bills got shorted -- but when I confront him, lots of gaslighting all our lives. Eventually we work something out.

This time I have to insist fully on NCL. I actually think I will get it.

Good. Don't back down on that NCL.

He also need to follow the policy of radical honesty.
PORH


His anger is a sign that you hit on some truth.

Thanks, Brainhurts!

We gave the NCL etc. a rest last night. We had a quiet evening w/two adult kids plus godmother home and enjoyed each other.

My WH could be thinking that I have backed off. But he has also been reminded of how good our home life was pre-EA.

Up to now I considered how much I had to lose if WH kept our marriage in danger.

Now I also realize that WH has a LOT to lose. I believe he will ultimately dump OW utterly rather than lose what we have.

We will see.

I have decided now to call my friends and family and tell them to pray hard for this NCL. I am praying for how to continue the battle for the NCL.

Without the NCL (I now realize), my husband gets to retain a piece of the EA in his heart. The EA is a cancer and will fight to grow again. It has to die.

The battle consists not only of directly insisting -- too much of that just sparks WH's habitual resistance and he says the most ridiculously illogical things out of pure stubbornness -- what he says would be funny if the stakes were not so high --

The battle also consists of inspiring the community around him to completely give up this relationship and to name it for what it is.

It took this forum for me to understand the need for exposure.

I needed MB to realize that infidelity affects a widening circle of MANY people, not just the married couple.

Adultery is NOT a personal problem just between husband and wife.

Give him a date that he needs to have that NCL written by.

Also what condition are you ready to hold to if he doesn't write the NCL letter?

Lessons I learned in the weeks and months following D-Day:

1. Refusal to write a no contact letter indicates the wayward spouse is either still in contact or hopes to be in the future.

2. Even after proportedly telling all there is to know, if a wayward spouse does not commit to 100% honesty and openness about everything, he is still lying.

3. Neither of these issues indicate a readiness to commit fully to the marriage. The result is a huge physical and emotional toll on the betrayed wife.

I tolerated my H's dodging around for far to long and regret not going into Plan B.

AM

Brainhurts,
I have no set of conditions yet.
The ultimate condition is that WH would move out.
At this point I am not ready to split the family.
The question for me right now is whether I am better off limping along with an incomplete recovery but an apparently intact family, or pushing for full recovery and perhaps losing this imperfect but precious family unity.

Splitting the household over this seems kind of crazy at the moment.

Thanks, Armymama,

WH's refusal of NCL informs me that he dreams of seeing OW again.

I'm going to keep pushing for NCL from a lot of different angles.

As Brainhurts points out, naming no conditions means WH can afford not to comply.

Can I be in love with a man whom I must discipline in order to receive the love of a husband?

I don't want to lose my family!!!!

Praying hard. Back to work.

Limping along without recovering is reconciling yourself to a miserable future. Doing this longterm causes significant health problems for women, both physical and emotional.

IF your husband changes, commits to NC, commits to your marriage, stops gaslighting and bullying you, provides just compensation for his affair, you can recover the marriage and the love.

One of the other things I learned was that our marriage could not recover as long I was "pushing and pulling" H into the marriage and H was along for the ride. When H took responsibility for the lead in marital recovery, we started healing. You cannot make him do this. You can only define your own boundaries and expectations for the behavior you will accept from him.

AM

ArmyMama,
Thank you for your response.
How/why/when did your H start taking the lead in marital recovery?

Strugglg2,

D-Day was in April 2008. My H left his job in July 2008 and reluctantly wrote an NC letter to the OW his last day of work. Sixteen months later, while staying with his mother for a few days after her stroke, H contacted the OW via email and they corresponded via email and phone for about 10 days. H lied to me about the contact saying that he emailed OW, but she didn't respond. H was very foggy and I told him that if he didn't commit 100% to the marriage, I wanted to never see or speak with him again. My conditions included attending an MB weekend (now the online program), commiting to working the course, apologies to all that had been hurt (our children, close friends, other family members). At first, H was limping along, not contributing much and I could not live that way. H then made the arrangements for us to attend an MB weekend in Minneapolis.

The week after we returned, H told me the truth about his contact with OW. I am not certain what our coach told him in the first phone call, but H's attitude completely changed. He became the one to take out our MB workbooks. He completely adhears to the policies of joint agreement and radical honesty. He tells me he is very happy in our marriage. In fact, there are times when I believe he is much more in love with me than I him.

My entire thread is on the recovery forum and is entitled "Recovery - Take Two". I don't post too often to it. Recovery doesn't seem too exciting.

As I said in the earlier post, my H really changed when he recognized that I was serious about remaining in an empty shell of a marriage.

AM

Thank you, ArmyMama!

I told my H tonight that I was fasting and praying regarding the NCL. He asked if I was trying to manipulate him into writing the letter so I would not starve. I explained that I was focusing spiritually.

He went through his things that he says -- now incorporating this supposed NC message he already sent OW about 8 months ago -- which I can't verify.

One change was that he is now saying the whole thing was really wrong. He has said that in the recent past but his words and attitude are different now. He doesn't come across now like he's resentfully deflecting criticism. He seems to mean it.

Having to tell his side to our kids made him repeat a version of his own actions, and each of our kids has heard my side. I think this repetition has begun to show WH the true import of his actions; also the kids' reactions have impressed reality on him. (They are all grown.)

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Words mean nothing if he doesn't follow them with actions.

Without a repentant WH you are set up for a false recovery, my friend.

True, Brainhurts -- words w/o action are just words. But at least I'm getting some very different words.

This morning during a long painful discussion about the whole NC demand, my husband agreed to delete OW and family from all social networking connections ("That's okay! There's no contact there anyway!"). We both had to turn to work matters then, and rather inconveniently, tonight we had a small celebration of my birthday with two adult kids that are here and their godmother. My husband was startled when he realized again that I was not eating (been drinking V-8, tea with milk, but no food). (I will not let myself starve -- no real desire to eat yet and will eat again as the Lord leads.)

We did not do the website disconnection today, but my husband has to stay off the next few days for a work-related injury. We will do the websites tomorrow morning as soon as we get up and I will continue to press for the NC letter.

One of our kids remarked that at college, all the married couples (counselors etc.) stuck to joint social network sites -- no solo accounts. I think my husband would agree to deleting our solo sites and setting up a joint one.

One away child called to wish me happy birthday. I had said to read the Wikipedia article "Emotional Affair," which could have been a journalist's description of what happened between WH and OW, not to mention its impact on me. This child said from WH's self-defensive description alone, what happened was obviously an emotional affair -- never mind the details I filled in.

At least our kids are getting an important education. They all say to me that they wish they had known much, much sooner.