This is the one I'm waiting on. Anyone that trickle truths through 43 pages of full confession probably has a lot more that's hidden.

I don't think you do, and that's dangerous.

Yes.

I believe I've posted lots of long posts that might bear rereading. They suggest lots of things to do that I don't believe you've done (or at least you haven't said), as well as asked questions that I don't believe you answered.

One question I never saw the answer to: a couple days ago you said you were violating extraordinary precautions, and I asked what you had done. What did you do?

A new question: what are the main areas I mentioned that you need to research and fix? This is going to be like playing the piano, an extraordinarily complex skill that requires lots of attention in many areas and execution of lots of new skills all at the same time. For starters, getting a list of the areas you need new skills in will help.

I couldnt agree more. TRT, THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOUR GUILT AND SHAME. It's about putting those feelings aside, rolling up your sleeves, and whenever AI asks for truth you roll up your sleeves and YOU JUMP TO IT.

You are the doctor who is supposed to be healing your wife, god help her. When she asks you for the treatment of truth, you eke it out and take it slow, even though this causes her MORE pain. Because it's easier for you.

She needs the truth in ONE GO. An avalanche of truth. And you will just have to deal with the guilt of her pain when you do that. Just deal with it.

So tell us the answer to the question you really dont want to answer.

What is the one thing, that you quake to think of AI discovering?

When you've told her that, tell her all the rest too.

Tell it now, and if it makes her leave you, know that she at least leaves with the truth and the ability to heal.




This is just so selfish I dont know where to begin. 8 I's and 11 me's. Yeah I counted them - that's how appalled I was.

The vets on this forum know where to direct their advice. You dont get to direct them. You take all 2x4s gratefully if you want to get through this maze of your own making.

You are grateful in the way that a lost man in the desert should be grateful for the map. You're welcome.

Right now I dont rate your chances well for recovery. Recovery is much harder than coming clean or taking a poly and it will involve you feeling guilt and shame for some time.

I think you fear the feeling of guilt, instead of realising guilt is your friend. I think the only reason you are here is to heal the guilt - not your wife.

I think you try to nice everyone into helping you appease that guilt, and that will not get you through recovery.

You need to embrace the deepest darkest centre of this hole you have dug, the most shameful secrets - and accept that AI has a right to them regardless of what happens to you and regardless of your guilt.

Please man up and take the 'I's' and 'Me's' out of the equation.

Translation: Stop jabbing me, the guilt is something I choose not to deal with. Go and appease her, as that will best help my guilt.

YOU can heal her. YOU.




We know.

Well, that would not be at all good for your guilt, would it?

I don't think he feels guilt, not in the way that "normal" people do anyway. Another poster stated that he perfers the image of goodness, rather than actual goodness. I think my WW suffers from the same moral defect. If they can only convince people that they are what they are pretending to be, then their world will go on revolving around them.

Their moral character is cracked at the foundation. Instead of tearing it down and rebuilding, they continue to try and patch it up. I truly feel for AI

I've been following your thread and think you need to face this question and it bears repeating.

In the end, YOU have to live with YOURSELF and I think you're afraid of facing who you are. But once you know yourself, you will find peace and options. While you still try to hide who you are, you will forever be in conflict internally and in pain.

Your wife will recover from this regardless of what you do. What you're failing to realize, here, even in all of your selfishness, is that this really is your CHANCE to have a different life. You are CHOOSING your path now. Not many people get a second chance like this, to actually start over fresh, but to do it, you'll have to completely humble yourself, strip yourself of all your layers of perception and admit whatever it is is your deepest, darkest secret.

Markos,

I don't remember what the EPs I broke were, but it was probably AO's (Love Busters in general), maybe taking my phone the the bathroom, and something else. Any remember.

The areas you asked me to look at were:


I'm rereading Love Busters right now and will reread SAA immediately after.

Thank you for posting.
I'll try to get back to everyone today.
If I don't, just please know that I am reading these posts.

AI is an amazing woman, as she demonstrated even though she had no reason to, last night. I love her. Always will. From here on out, she comes first.

All: I'm reading your posts fully. If I'm not responding, I apologize. I will try.

I've applied for a credit card in the hopes of being able to facilitate coaching with Dr. Harley. If I don't get approved, I will find something else to sell and pay down my current card, or see if I can borrow.

Also, my computer wouldn't turn on at the pawn shop, so it wouldn't sell. When we got home, the new battery I'd ordered (an EP I broke) was delivered. The computer now works, and is listed for sale on Craigslist. I will put all funds brought in by this sale towards AI and (hopefully) coaching with Dr. Harley.

You can remember 43 pages of EA's and PA's but cant remember what EP you broke 2 days ago?

Wow !......Just WOW.

Read the above post. I remembered. Thank you.

TRT this where your words and actions DON'T match, I have read you saying, Al is amazing, Al is great, I love Al over and over again but your actions show the exact opposite.

Do you lie, hurt and betray and then lie some more to a person that you want to make feel amazing and loved? You can repeat how amazing you think she is here 100 times a day but your continued lying and ducking from your responsibility to heal her will continue to ensure that she will not believe any empty compliments you want to throw her way.

After all she's nothing like the cheap tarts you are so accustomed to picking up off the streets so getting her to like you again (never mind love you again) will take alot more effort, she deserves more respect than the women who regularly fell for your bull when you flirted with them during your marriage to Al.

Wow if this is love I wonder how you treat people you don't like?


It's time to grow a backbone either truly start to inform Al of ALL your past directions or walk away and allow her to heal.

Okay. Thank you for your honesty.

TRT, you have to decide - right now, because this cannot wait - to become a better person. Not a person who tries to make themselves look better. There's a difference, and attempting to gloss over the facts on this forum is as telling as anything else. We're a bunch of anonymous strangers on the internet. Who cares what we think - other than the fact that some posters are advising AI to walk, which I think terrifies you.

I said lies are like a nest of cockroaches earlier. Let me give you another analogy. Suppose you pass the poly. Suppose, that through that grace we WS's don't deserve, AI chooses to give you another chance. Suppose there are still lies untold - maybe the right questions weren't asked on the poly, who knows...imagine that your recovery is like rebuilding a house. Your home has been gutted by fire, and together you and AI decide to rebuild. When AI is not paying attention, you cut a few corners here and there (broken EPs, LBs)...you figure, what she doesn't know won't hurt her, right? The house is rebuilt, and it looks - to all outward appearances - fantastic. Unfortunately, over time, all those corners that have been cut result in problems in the foundation. Doors won't close all the way. There's a leak in the corner of the living room. One day, AI notices a rotten smell in the spare bedroom, and tracks it to one corner of the room. Carefully, she pries up a corner of the carpet, and finds mold has overtaken the subfloor. Lies allowed to fester in the darkness.

Yes, AI might leave you if she has the whole truth. But she will leave WITH the truth. Trust me, BS's know when something is not right. My husband knew in his gut something was wrong, that I hadn't told him everything, and he kept digging and digging. He couldn't rest until he knew the whole truth...and him having to find it out on his own, him having to pry up the corner of the carpet himself and confront me with the mold I'd allowed to grow, was the final blow to our marriage, even though we lingered, limping and struggling along for two years after that. If I'd fessed up with the whole truth, would we have had a different outcome? Possibly. Maybe not. I'll never know. But had I done so in one fell swoop, like ripping off a bandaid, it would have saved both of us - especially my husband - so many months of pain.

Wulffpack,

I really appreciate your post and your concern. The fact is, I've told her everything. I'm clean. I'll pass the poly with a clear conscience. It's a matter of helping her through and understanding/taking responsibility for her pain, for as long as it takes.

There's no mold right now. But there could be in the future. I love this woman enough to be completely transparent and honest, in a non-LB way, and to make sure this house is completely clean for the entirety of our lives together.

I wish you could just believe me, but I've lobbed enough lies around to know her posts will show the real truth. I'm here, I'm reading, and I'm trying. It's her thread that will verify that.

I really do appreciate the time you put into these analogies. They make a lot of sense, and get to the core issues.

And the issue here - full disclosure - is almost complete, an only has to be verified by a poly.

As per advice on her thread, I will agree to several polls a year, at random times, if she so chooses. I'll even start saving to pay for them all with my own money. Not a problem.

I want to change. AI deserves a better man. If she chooses me, that's who I'll become.

Thanks for your post and your honesty.

I want to briefly chime in TRT.

My FWW and I had a FR. Let me tell you that it is far worse than the A's themselves. If there was even a tiny bit of trust, a FR throws it completely out the door. It is the most heartbreaking event of my 42 years on this planet.

If she would have come completely clean from the beginning and would have been 100% on board with MB our R would be SO much easier.

Warning to you. I know you say you are coming clean. Only you know this in your heart. Do yourself a favor and do the right thing.

The truth always comes out eventually.

Set yourself up to WIN not to FAIL.

Remember, you might be able to fool some of the people some of the time...but you can't fool yourself.

You can never run from yourself. Run the 4 corners of the earth and everytime you look in the mirror the same person appears. The path you choose today will set the course for the rest of your life.

You have to look at yourself in the mirror everyday. Ask yourself, what do you want to see? Don't you have enough regrets already without making more?