Excellent read.

What did you think of the clips?

Thanks for the clips. The main points I get is that nobody has ever failed on the MB program, and that you cannot start the program unless both partners agree to go through the program.

Also talked about exposure; I know how hard that can be, but that's how it needs to be. They are right.

The program can also work just as effectively if both are not on board. That's the design of Plan B. Personal recovery. It may not feel like it right now (and believe me, I know it doesn't), but you're in a win win situation. You will recover one way or the other. That's why everyone has been begging you to not abandon the board. You have a lot of folks here that truly care, myself included. I don't think you realize just how lucky you are to have landed here. This board is a Godsend in this time of need.

BTW, are you the spawn of Gandhi? I swear you would have to be to be making these efforts after what you've had to endure in only three years of marriage.

I couldn't and wouldn't do it. NO WAY!

You have my respect.

Exactly, my friend.

Dr. Harley says in 35+ years of saving marriages that the MB program works 100% of the time when both spouses are on board.

Exposure. He is very clear on this. You did well.

TW - no, I'm no Gandi. Really, I don't think I'm that special. I have been reading other people's posts; wayward spouses doing incest, prostitution, having multiple kids with multiple OW or OM outside of marriage, abuse, alcoholism . . . I don't think my situation is nearly as bad as others, and many of them manage to keep working on their marriage.

Call me an unrealistic idealist, an enabler, a religious zealot . . . even a gullible, stubborn idiot. But even through all this pain that I am enduring, all of which I never did deserve, I stand by my value that marriage is forever, that I made a promise to God and to my wife that I will keep trying through good times and bad. That's the only reason I am not giving up. If she ever decides she wants a divorce, I'll agree to it as there's nothing left to fight for. Until then, I guess I'm just a sucker for abuse.

Call the radio show and ask Dr Harley.
The question is your wife willing to work on your marriage and use Marriage builder concepts?
3 affairs in 3 years? It sounds like she can't commit.
Ask Dr Harley.
As for your vows before God, she BROKE the marriage contract.
Personally I would. It take her back unless she was wiling to comit to following the MB program.

Oh I would also encourage you to speak with your religious leaders. Ask them if your religion obligates you to be married to a serial adulteress.

jah, entering Plan B and STAYING in it is difficult. Do keep posting. You need us here to hold you accountable, I have found owning up to my Plan B cracks and knowing the 2X4's I'd get made me hesitate when I was wanting to contact WH.

Going through withdrawal from our WS's is HARD. There will be low points where you will need to know someone on the other end of the net understands how you feel, and is still telling you not to break Plan B. Cause they know you'll feel worse if you do.

But it gets better... and better... and better!

Plan B(etter)?

Thanks Caracal, I really appreciate your support. I think for now it's not too hard because my BS is still in her home country. In two days she will be back here in the city; I don't want to even start thinking about where she will stay when she gets back.

2x4's. You mean you would get cracked in the head?

Looking at your bio, have you been in plan B for 6 months now???!?

As I anticipate her return, quick question. Am I allowed to go snooping on her when she is here? (track her phone, check phone numbers that she calls, etc.) Its going to drive me crazy.

No jah in Plan B you're completely dark. You do not snoop on her. You ask all your support system to not even talk about her to you. Completely dark. You spend the time healing and taking care of yourself with self care.

What things have you always wanted to do for yourself? Start putting a "bucket list" together. A Plan B"ucket" list.

The girls in Plan B have a "what color are your nails today" moto. Maybe we can have the guys chime in and come up with a "?" how is your today. How about "how are those muscles coming along?"

What do you suggest?

In Plan B, where she stays in not your problem. You will have to quit being the knight in shining armour (KISA) for your WW. I have a feeling you have always "rescued" her when she needs it. She relies on it. In Plan B, this is not for you to do anymore. WW needs to understand, if divorced (and Plan B is a taste of life without you) you will not rescue her in any way, shape or form.

Jah, my best advice is to start thinking about how you are going to block your WW if she tries to play the damsel in distress. If she does sit outside your apartment, how will you handle this? If she shows up at your work?

Have you changed your phone number? Your email addy? Blocking will not work. Every time your WW attempts to contact you, it sets you back in your recovery. This is coming from someone who has learned the hard way. No more. Don't do it to yourself.

Not literally! Its an emoticon, you'll know it when you get one... the feeling of being accountable and embarassed really works!

I'm an aussie, so the dates are written different... I had to check but I have been in Plan B for 10 months! I no longer count the minutes, days, weeks etc. As Plan B goes on, my life without WH has evolved.

As BH says, NO! She gets a hotel room on credit card... rings an unknown number... Snooping on her will drive your crazy.

Entering Plan B is for your recovery, regardless of whether WW joins you for marital recovery or not. It took me a long time to accept this, as I really believed WH would of course join me for the journey when he pulled his head from his behind. I have learned that I have no control over his obsession with his own rectal examination, and focussing on what the wayward is doing whilst they are wayward is crazy making. As I have reminded myself yesterday with a crack in Plan B from solicitors, any information about the wayward just triggers us into thinking about the wayward, when it is faaar better to be thinking about ourselves and what we want to do with our lives.

You know you deserve a wife committed to marriage right? Plan B is about letting your WW choose if she is that woman or not. Because you'll survive regardless, and life WILL be great.

Thanks for the advice, caracal.

"I don't want to even start thinking about where she will stay when she gets back."

Oh no, I'm not going to find her a place to stay. What I mean to say is that it will drive me crazy thinking of if she will go and stay with the OM. I know I gotta get this out of my head, but it's hard.

"I have been in Plan B for 10 months!"

10 months? How do you do it? Do you have a timeline? (as in a date you will decide to just give up and divorce?) You won't wait forever, will you?

I still don't know if divorce can be a part of plan B, but actually I was going to start the process tomorrow, since it takes a few months to finalize and I'll give her at least that much time to get out of the fog. After that, it's over.

Have you changed your phone number? Your email addy?

Email addy is tied to work; I'm actually finished with my position in about 10 days, so I'll get a new one afterwards. PHone number is a little more tricky; all my patients have my phone number, as well as on the roladex of different hospital/clinics. It will be very disruptive to change that one. I'll wait for now; hopefully my IM will be helpful.

At the very least block her email and phone numbers.

Yes. I will do that for sure.

Speaking of starting the process of divorce, is there a link or advice how to choose a lawyer? I'm sure there's a better way than looking in the phone book and choosing the one with the biggest ad.

Have you got any friends, male or otherwise, who lost everything in a divorce? Ask them who their ex's lawyer was. Other than that, I'm not sure. The vets will be able to do better for you.

Good luck.

I called and spoke with several attorneys and asked them who was their worst opponent. 3 out of 5 gave me the same name, and it is her that I choose. (that was rather unique, but my atty is an absolute killer, strategically tremendously good! I also googled her and there was a court transcript where a defendant wanted to change attorneys and the judge said 'why would you do that? You have the best attorney in XXX', so I knew I had the right person)

You likely can also go to your local court website and find the cases from the attorneys you are looking at. You can see what kind of cases they mostly do and have done, you can see what motions they have filed and whether they are usually denied or confirmed. You can see if they have been replaced often in divorce cases.

I mean it may take some time to find a good one, but the information is all there.

Also ask divorce friends or other attorneys for recommendations.

Okay, I have been second guessing myself about this plan B, with crazy thoughts in my head popping up like its just making it easier for her to sleep with this OM, this is going to put her more and more in the fog, it's like I'm giving up on my wife who I still care so much about, etc.

I got out of plan A because I found myself crying more, not less. Because I found myself having LB arguments with my wife in my head. Because I started thinking, "I don't think she's worth it." But now in plan B I am crying much, much more than before, feeling like I want to do something, to win her back, to go back to Plan A.

I took a deep breath, and realized that to be strong I needed to start a list for myself, a list which shows exactly why I am doing plan B. I think I need this for my sanity.

Why I'm doing plan B:
1) I have been an enabler for too long. I need my wife to hit rock bottom if I hope to have a better, more committed wife to be back with me.
2) The only way my wife will see what it is like to be without me is to cut her out of my life completely.
3) This will give me time to heal and recover, because I have to take care of myself first before I can take care of anyone else.
4) My wife has abused me and shown no respect for our marriage vows. I do not deserve someone like her.

Actually, I have to stop there at number 4. In my younger days (early 20's), I found with girlfriends that I broke up with that what made the breakup easier was to start listing every single fault they had. Once I had this list, it was fairly easy to let them go.

I don't know if I should do this with my wife (it would be so easy to make a list, I'm sure). It might make me hate her so much, if she ever accepts my conditions it will make it more difficult to work on our marriage.

Do you think I should do this? Make a 'hate list'? Anyone else have some things for me to add to my "Why I'm doing plan B" list? I feel the more I can add the easier it will be to deal with the lows.

Doc:

If I were your buddy and able to visit with you, Id grab you by the shoulders and look you into your eyes and Id shake the crap out of you hoping something inside your head will come loose and you'll start to see things that all of us see.

You wife has reduced you to a whimpering, sissy-man.

I have not heard one iota of anything resembling a wife interested in saving this marriage. In fact, I hear clearly shes taking this opportunity to be with her AP.

Without kids this become super easy in my opinion. I would have file for divorce like 15 minutes after the 2nd affair let alone the 3rd. Id cut off any support and change the locks on our marriage home. And, Id start dating because Im sure in the near future you can find a woman who wont cheat on you AND/OR you will have used the materials on this site to create a real relationship with open dialog and mutual respect.

No hate lists. No pining for the disaster that is your wife. Just read your threads and for crying out loud, man, enough of the woe is me stuff.

See it differently, now OM has to meet all all her needs, and trashy people can't. Instead of having her eat from 2 walls, she is now solely dependent on him. The sooner they shack up, the sooner it will collapse.